IDW Publishing Forums

[Enisy]

I'm just gonna ignore the mythology-breaking soul-exchange plotline, since Joss isn't involved in it and it isn't likely to figure into the 'verse in any way after this mini-series is over.

Thanks for summarizing the issue and transcribing some of its dialogue, Buffyversefantic! I might actually buy this one. The Spike/Willow interaction seems adorable, and Mooney's art doesn't make me want to compose sonnets on the relative beauty of the speech-bubbles, like the previous guy's.

I have a question, though: why did Betta George "feel" the murders when delving into Drusilla's mind, but not when he delved into Spike's, Angel's or any other shady character's? Shouldn't his telepathy have a uniform effect?

[Buffyversefantic]

[Deborahmm]

[Moscow Watcher]

[Veiriti]

Thanks for the transcript, Buffyversefantic!
I'm really excited of the storyline! I can't wait to get my copy!
Loved Willow/Spike dialogue! It's funny that Willow has turned Dru into a kitten!
And John wants his soul back to feel a pleasure of his murders again? Very interesting indeed...
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Spike - "Love like that makes you stronger than anything... you CAN SAVE THE WORLD WITH A LOVE LIKE THAT."

[Enisy]

Someone ought to write Frog!Angel/Kitten!Drusilla fanfiction (see Buffy: Season 8 #36).

[fender_love]

[kamw30]

[Veiriti]

[Shade of Pale]

I've got my copy now. I loved this ! The Willow/Spike dialogue was really special and easily surpassed my hopeful expectations. Next to Spike and Willow, I thought it was also a great issue for George. with his new awareness of how Spike and Dru felt when they destroyed so many lives. It was a crisis moment with a strong emotional punch. I could understand how he felt as he did and why it rendered him unconcious initially. I wonder what effect it will have on his friendship with Spike long-term. I also just loved Beck's loyalty and Spike's determination to restore Jeremy.

All in all, a great mixuture of drama, wonderful dialogue and action. The best for me, of the series so far.

[Double Dutchess]

I got my copy of Spike #5 this evening. Things are finally picking up speed now. Like everybody else, I loved Willow's interaction with Spike. The scene with Willow, Spike and Drusilla was enjoyable too.

Some other familiar faces besides Willow: the naked tentacled demon who tried to kill Spike in Angel #26/#27 turns out to be working with John! And I only just noticed that Willow has a Dicky Duck doll.

[itsame]

[Jean-Vic]

As far as we know, there is only one vampire who was completely devoid of humanity and he couldn't be burned by the Judge.

Way I have always seen it, vampires were once people. They have no soul, no conscience. They have no moral compass. Vampires, in a way, were evil, but never for the sake of it. You see, like DD said, they seemed to enjoy what they did just for the simple elation it brought, the predatory thrill. Look at what Spike says in Damage. He never contemplated the nature of evil. He just did. Sort of like the Freudian model of there being 3 sides to the psyche. ID, Super-ID and Ego. One of these controls impulse, desire, passion and if left unchecked, runs rampant. One is fully controlled by the constraints of society, rules, regulation. The third balances these out. Allows people to act on their desires but only in ways that do not corrupt the laws society, family etc imposes.

And yet, the shows have shown us that there is an element of evil to them. You see, the way I have always seen vampires is a twisted husk of what they were. I don't believe they are without rules, and that society's laws and constraints no longer bind them. I believe that they lose the balncing aspect. I believe that the element of nature and the element of nurture are in direct conflict, and freud always said that nature overpowered. That was why the third element was needed, to even the odds. Think of it as George Foreman in the ring with a 10 year old girl. No ref, there's gonna be a blood bath.

Way I see it, vampires know the difference. They know the law, the rules and morals, but without the soul they cannot ever hope to abide by them because their animalistic urge will always win out. However, in most vampires, there is always something in place that is a link to their humanity, a residual referee that will limit their actions to an extent. Spike, for instance, is limited by love. His human love is what guides him in some cases, and calms his animalistic urge. It keeps him linked to humanity, but in the end, this referee is just a 10 year old girl itself and George Foreman can batter and bruise her as well. Spike has a link to humanity, love, but it is twisted. It guides and points his way in some form, but not like it should. That's why he sees the solution to making someone love him is torture, or rape. His animalistic urge overcomes that anchor and mangles it. Angelus never had anything like that. He held onto nothing. He was just pure animal. He revelled in pain and evil because he had nothing else. Spike had something, and that was what made him and other vampires different.

I know this was long winded, but it was my way of saying that I agree with DD about John. He used to enjoy killing with a soul because he had the balancer, the referee who he could defy. Without a soul, he is breaking rules, but it's just instint, not choice.
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I'm so glad I'm an Asshole!

[dorotea]

IMHO - if vampires have 'link to humanity' than Slayers are genocidal maniacs dusting potentially redeemable creatures. Slayers should be laying vampires not slaying them - because obviously vamps have potential to love. Exaggeration, but that's what this kind of speculation implies.

[kamw30]