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bitsyfest
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009
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Location: Washington Heights, NY
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Double Dutchess
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Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Thanks! I'm not entirely sure what to think about these pages yet... My first reaction was being confused. Why did Angel suddenly attack Spike? For a moment I thought that was some kind of flashback. It also took me a while to figure out there are two kinds of narrator boxes, white ones for Angel and yellow ones for Spike. What's clear though is that the status of Spike's soul is still uncertain, with clues pointing in different directions. And Illyria still seems to be the only one caring about Dez (though I can understand that for Angel, Connor is the priority).
The character dialogue doesn't feel right to me on all points; for example, since when would Illyria ask so nicely? I would have thought the word "please" was beneath her, certainly in a situation like this where a threat or simple violence would have seemed a more obvious choice for her. Or is this supposed to be a sign of Illyria becoming more and more like a human? And since when does Spike care about stains on the carpet? Or did he just say that because *Angel* would care?
I like the new style of the art compared to the more "sketchy" look of the previous issues. I could do without Spike looking like a bodybuilder though. And some of the faces, for example the p.3 panel of Angel in vamp face, look pretty bad too. Maybe it's due to the fact that Elena is working under severe time pressure, as mentioned in Pat's interview. I know she can do much better than this. ETA: the colouring doesn't do much for it either.
Last edited by Double Dutchess on Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Buffyversefantic
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Preview looks good.  |
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Shade of Pale
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks, bitsyfest. I quite liked the intensity of the Spike/Angel scene and it kind of worked for me that Angel's concerns led him to lash out, but that the scene ended with an aknowledgement of trust between the two, despite the uncertainty over Spike's soul. |
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Double Dutchess
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Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Shade of Pale wrote: | | I quite liked the intensity of the Spike/Angel scene and it kind of worked for me that Angel's concerns led him to lash out, but that the scene ended with an aknowledgement of trust between the two, despite the uncertainty over Spike's soul. |
To me Angel's punch came entirely out of the blue. Spike wasn't even annoying him but actually helping him to find Connor! I do agree about how the scene ended though. |
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bitsyfest
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 64
Location: Washington Heights, NY
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Shade of Pale wrote: | | Thanks, bitsyfest. I quite liked the intensity of the Spike/Angel scene and it kind of worked for me that Angel's concerns led him to lash out, but that the scene ended with an aknowledgement of trust between the two, despite the uncertainty over Spike's soul. |
I liked this opening scene a lot, too. I feel like Angel's not stopped for breath since Connor vanished and, in this moment where Spike gets snarky, Angel suddenly remembers about Spike's soul problem and, feeling out of control, he takes his aggressions out on Spike. I find that to be very much in character for Angel and I love how Spike responds to it. To me, it's a great scene between two complicated characters who have an ongoing love/hate relationship with one another. |
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Veiriti
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Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, Angel punching Spike without a reason was a kind rough, well, maybe Angel is turning evil  ... but anyway I loved the dynamic between them, especially in the end. Good preview, thanks for posting it!
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Spike - "Love like that makes you stronger than anything... you CAN SAVE THE WORLD WITH A LOVE LIKE THAT." |
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Mariah
IDW Editor
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 115
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Just an art note since I see that has come up for some folks:
Elena did not do all of the art on this issue, actually, for many of the time reasons indicated in her recent interview (none of them her fault). One of her studio mates took on this issue and did a great job.
Folks having style preferences is natural, but statements that include words like "bad" are subjective, and they're pretty insulting to an artist who worked very hard to get this issue completed so Elena, who has been working on this book for 4 months straight without a break (and won't have one until #44 is done, which equals nearly a year without a break), could get ahead on #38 and the next storyline. Not to mention that she's also drawing Illyria.
One of the things fans never see is all the scheduling that goes on behind the scenes. We don't arbitrarily have other artists fill in on a book, it's always an issue of time and not wanting our artists arms to fall off. Or explode from stress.
Monthly books are always a challenge, and generally you have to build in breaks for an artist so they can get ahead. So, in this case, one of Elena's studio mates took on this issue so she could do that.
No matter who is working on an issue, everyone is working very hard, and I think that deserves respect even when it doesn't meet every fans expectations or style preferences. It's fine to say "this style isn't for me" and leave it there. |
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Double Dutchess
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Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Mariah wrote: | Just an art note since I see that has come up for some folks:
Elena did not do all of the art on this issue, actually, for many of the time reasons indicated in her recent interview (none of them her fault). One of her studio mates took on this issue and did a great job.
Folks having style preferences is natural, but statements that include words like "bad" are subjective, and they're pretty insulting to an artist who worked very hard to get this issue completed so Elena, who has been working on this book for 4 months straight without a break (and won't have one until #44 is done, which equals nearly a year without a break), could get ahead on #38 and the next storyline. Not to mention that she's also drawing Illyria.
One of the things fans never see is all the scheduling that goes on behind the scenes. We don't arbitrarily have other artists fill in on a book, it's always an issue of time and not wanting our artists arms to fall off. Or explode from stress.
Monthly books are always a challenge, and generally you have to build in breaks for an artist so they can get ahead. So, in this case, one of Elena's studio mates took on this issue so she could do that.
No matter who is working on an issue, everyone is working very hard, and I think that deserves respect even when it doesn't meet every fans expectations or style preferences. It's fine to say "this style isn't for me" and leave it there. |
Since I was the only one who brought up the art, I assume this is directed at me. When I said that the faces in some panels looked bad, this was --obviously, I thought-- purely in my opinion, and of course very subjective. I just forgot to add this explicitly. I usually try to be careful in my wording, but apparently I slipped up there. I'm very sorry that what I said came across as insulting; it was never intended that way. I sincerely apologize for it.
Also I'd like to point out that by no means did I intend to imply the artists were not working hard. In fact I assumed that some of the art wasn't of the same high quality (again, strictly in my opinion) that we're used to from Elena, exactly because she is working so hard. Now it turns out the art was done by another artist, and that explains it too. This is clearly not one of my favourite artists then, but as I said I like the overall style and there were only a few panels I didn't think were very good. And obviously I do appreciate this new artist stepping in to alleviate Elena's work load.
In the future, instead of using the word "bad" I'll try to remember saying "not to my liking" or something to that effect. And just as a disclaimer, in case I accidentally slip up again: I thoroughly respect the writers, artists and all of the creative team involved in making the comics, even if what they do may not always be to my liking.
I promise I'll be walking on eggshells from now on. |
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BrianLynch
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I promise I'm not just saying this because of what was posted, I was really into the art. It's simple and clean and dynamic. Very Mike Mignola. |
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Double Dutchess
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Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| BrianLynch wrote: | | It's simple and clean and dynamic. Very Mike Mignola. |
That's what I like about it too. As said, I just think the faces don't look right in a few of the panels, and I'm not a fan of the colouring, but overall I do "dig" the art as shown in the preview. I guess I just stressed the few negative (in my opinion) aspects a bit too much in my first post. |
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Spacediva70
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Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Double Dutchess wrote: | Thanks! I'm not entirely sure what to think about these pages yet... My first reaction was being confused. Why did Angel suddenly attack Spike? For a moment I thought that was some kind of flashback. It also took me a while to figure out there are two kinds of narrator boxes, white ones for Angel and yellow ones for Spike. What's clear though is that the status of Spike's soul is still uncertain, with clues pointing in different directions. And Illyria still seems to be the only one caring about Dez (though I can understand that for Angel, Connor is the priority).
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I think that the Angel/Spike fight was just Angel being temperamental because he is worried about Connor mostly but also because Dez died and Spike may not have a soul. Angel doesn't always handle stress well - remember when he threw the phone after talking to Giles in season 5? I think it is very in character for him.
| Quote: | | The character dialogue doesn't feel right to me on all points; for example, since when would Illyria ask so nicely? I would have thought the word "please" was beneath her, certainly in a situation like this where a threat or simple violence would have seemed a more obvious choice for her. Or is this supposed to be a sign of Illyria becoming more and more like a human? And since when does Spike care about stains on the carpet? Or did he just say that because *Angel* would care? |
I liked the Illyria part. I think that the reason she ask Spike to "stop please" rather than using violence is a sign of her changing nature which we get to see in her upcoming series. It makes sense to make hints to it now rather than have her character go 180 when she gets her own book. Plus I think that she is starting to form attachments to team Angel and probably doesn't have any desire to hurt them or watch them get hurt anymore.
As for the blood in the carpet comment, it reminded me of season 2 of Buffy when Spike told Angel that he didn't fancy trying to get librarian out of the carpet when Angel wanted to take a chainsaw to Giles.
I loved the preview and can't wait to read the whole issue! |
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DanielW
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 9619
Location: The Village
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Veiriti wrote: | | Yeah, Angel punching Spike without a reason was a kind rough, well, maybe Angel is turning evil |
maybe Spike isn't the only one who has misplaced their souls... |
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angeliclestat
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| DanielW wrote: | | Veiriti wrote: | | Yeah, Angel punching Spike without a reason was a kind rough, well, maybe Angel is turning evil |
maybe Spike isn't the only one who has misplaced their souls... |
The soul-eater was pretty sure that Angel had a soul though, so I think it is just Angel reverting to taking out his frustrations on Spike. Not a nice side of him, but at least he apologised quickly and will probably try not to do it again.
Something happens with these two characters to make them not trust each other come Buffy #36 - maybe it happens in the Spike series, or in this...but it is a pity that after reaching an understanding during After the Fall, their fighting side-by-side is going to come to an end.
Who else thinks that Spike will go back to the Buffy title once the moves happens?
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Double Dutchess
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Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| sueworld wrote: | | Nah, If you don't like the art, you don't like the art. |
Well, I like some aspects of the art (overall style/clean lines, some panels) and I don't like other aspects (colouring, other panels). So just saying "I don't like it" overall wouldn't do it justice. |
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