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Beachcomber
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3963
Location: Vancouver, BC
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 Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Duo Maxwell wrote: | | it wasn't too much to ask for the Enterprise to at least look like the Enterprise. |
Seems to point out the futility of the argument to me. This statement makes it seem like they're trying to pass off a Star Destroyer as the Federation flagship. But, there are certain things that define a design differently for everyone.
How anyone could think that this ship doesn't look like the Enterprise is beyond me. The basic design is exactly the same, but a few of the lines are in minutely different places. Big deal. If you took the silhouette of this ship and showed it to anyone who owns a TV, they'd go "Oh, that's the ship from Star Trek innit?"
This is why Star Trek fans deservedly have the reputation that they do (no one get in a snit, I'm here too right?).
BTW, your hotlinks are down. |
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Duo Maxwell
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Beachcomber wrote: | | How anyone could think that this ship doesn't look like the Enterprise is beyond me. |
It looks like an Enterprise, for sure. At first glance, it would be recognizable as the Enterprise, but it shifts into abstract with a closer look.
| Quote: | | The basic design is exactly the same |
Like I mentioned before, it's the same in abstract. There are a lot of Star Trek ship designs with a cylindrical hull connected to a saucer and two upswept nacelles. For example, if you glance (meaning that: a quick, blink of an eye) at a top view of the Enterprise-E, you could mistake it for the Enterprise-A. The only really noticeable difference from that vantage point is the shape of the saucer, but everything else in in pretty much the same place, even the nacelles and the pylons are similarly positioned.
Despite some basic similarities, I doubt people would confuse the Enterprise-E with Voyager, despite sharing the same squashed and stretched out look with the saucer and secondary hulls.
The same thing is true with TMP-Enterprise and new Enterprise, they look similar in the abstract but other than the similarity of the saucer, they look almost completely different and they're supposed to be the same exact ship... unless Abrams has changed his mind again.
In any event, since the timeline has been mucked up prior to the construction of the Enterprise and there are definitely great changes being made to the new timeline, I can think "I don't really like the look of that ship" but not let it affect whether or not I like the movie. I'm just hoping the cheese which has been highlighted in the preview scenes is the exception to the rule. (so to be absolutely clear - for those who have knee-jerk reactions - I am not judging the entire movie, just the scenes which have already been presented and reported upon.)
| Quote: | | This is why Star Trek fans deservedly have the reputation that they do (no one get in a snit, I'm here too right?). |
Yeah, you're right. There are Star Trek fans who are just as fanatical as Transformers fans, though I'm not sure which fanbase has the worse reputation, to be honest. I've seen enough in both fanbases to be embarrassed.
| Quote: | | BTW, your hotlinks are down. |
Hmmm, it seems the forum automatically turns links into hotlinks and the site itself doesn't allow hotlinking. I'll save them to my Photobucket account for a couple weeks and insert them (sorry about the large size):
Original Series:
TMP Refit:
Re-Imagined:
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Ro-Dan
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Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 2215
Location: Royal Oak, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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I like ALL three styles. The new movie Enterprise looks freakin' sweet!
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Liebkraft
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Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 432
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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yeah, JJ, just go on and change evertyhing, it seems that the fans won't mind! Maybe some light saber instead of phasers, because the, for some weird JJ-reason, fit better?
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Soundwave
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Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4284
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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The new movie..."LOOKS"....interesting so far.....
Been a fan since the oh late 1979ish is when I started watching with my mom.
When I was a wee lad.
I thought the reimagined early Constitution class cruiser looked ok...
I agree with the classic car feel...lol
Still, it will be the actors pulling it off, and the story being good. Maybe Star Trek can be saved.... From itself.
A fresh start sure has helped Batman, and James Bond. The reboot of a series has been good for things of old.
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Liebkraft
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Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 432
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:48 am Post subject: |
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Batman maybe, but Bond has the same problem as the now Star Trek has... it's just not the same thing anymore. In the new Bond the took out evertyhing a Bond is like: women, the Martini, the cars with weapons and the gagets leaving a good action-movie but NOT a Bond-movie and it will be the same with Star Trek XI!!!
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Liebkraft
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Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 432
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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even if I'm not really 'in the new move' I see no point in witholding informations about it, for the one looking forward to it 
http://www.trekzone.de/sys/frontend/index.php?id=2864
it's actually a German Site, but with new pics from the movie and the USS Kelvin and with a link to a Site named 'boldly go' or something like that, there you'll find pics of the movie, the 2nd trailer and a 3D view with detail information on the USS Kelvin.
Even I like this site, so it's definitely worth a try
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Skwege
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Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 971
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Liebkraft wrote: | | yeah, JJ, just go on and change evertyhing, it seems that the fans won't mind! Maybe some light saber instead of phasers, because the, for some weird JJ-reason, fit better? |
Starfleet - Check
Enterprise - Check
Captain Pike - Check
Shuttlecraft - Check
Romulans - Check
etc, etc.
So what exactly did he change outside of an outdated 1960s production style and some minor continuity bits? It looks like Star Trek to me, just with a budget. We haven't had a real Star Trek MOVIE since Wrath of Khan. Everything else has come across as a feature length episode for the bigscreen. |
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Liebkraft
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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it's not only the design that annoys me, leave alone the 'new' bridge, but when JJ tells us all he does a new Movie that will respect the Canon, then he shall do likewise.
As far as I know there's never been a romantic releationship between Kirk and Uhura (okay, one time, but they were on drugs or something like that), the Crew under Pike was a different one, Chekov didnn't appear before Season 2 and oh, it's an established fact that Enterprise wasn't able to land on a planet, so why build her there and how get her up in space?
The whole thing has nothing to do with respecting the established facts, the canon or even us long-time fans, it's more about making money and therefore turning Star Trek in something like Police Academy 
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Skwege
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Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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It's been established for decades that The Enterprise was built at the San Francisco Shipyards. It's only fan assumption that made people assume the shipyards were sub orbital.
TOS contradicted itself all the time. Abrams is turning it into something like Police Academy? Isn't that a wee bit reactionary? |
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Duo Maxwell
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 1349
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Liebkraft wrote: | | it's not only the design that annoys me, leave alone the 'new' bridge, but when JJ tells us all he does a new Movie that will respect the Canon, then he shall do likewise. |
Given that Nero apparently screws with the past, the movie creates a splinter timeline which is all that's really necessary to explain changes in aesthetics and how the classic crew came together.
| Quote: | | As far as I know there's never been a romantic releationship between Kirk and Uhura |
I haven't really seen anything to suggest that they are romantic in the movie. All I've read is, for some reason, Kirk is hiding under Uhura's bed (which makes you wonder if Kirk is a blatant pervert in the movie) while the woman he was seen getting romantic with was an Orion.
Then again, since much of the trailer was apparently made for people with the attention span of a ferret on crack, it's not always easy to figure out what's going on.
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Skwege
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Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 971
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Duo Maxwell wrote: | | Liebkraft wrote: | | it's not only the design that annoys me, leave alone the 'new' bridge, but when JJ tells us all he does a new Movie that will respect the Canon, then he shall do likewise. |
Given that Nero apparently screws with the past, the movie creates a splinter timeline which is all that's really necessary to explain changes in aesthetics and how the classic crew came together.
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There has been so much time travel throughout the various series that its completely plausible that a bunch of stuff could have been altered.
Just the fact that The Borg popped up in the 21st Century and that Zephram Cochrane knew about them, and the fact that there would eventually be a Starfleet; could have really mucked up the timeline.
Enterprise even established that he didn't keep his mouth shut about the incident. That doesn't even include the various time travel incidents involving the original crew, they have even brought people back to the 23rd Century with them. Gillian Taylor could have been Zephram Cochrane's grandmother for all they knew. Not to mention that Zephram Cochrane in First Contact isn't consistent with Zephram Cochrane from TOS.
Time travel is a classic blunder; along with that you should never fight a land war in Asia. |
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Duo Maxwell
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's true. It might be kind of fun to see what the Star Trek universe looks like if you displayed all the the splinter or modified timelines as a result of all of the time travel stuff. (it might even resemble something similar to the Crystalline Entity)
One of the only things we know for certain is, had the crew of the Enterprise not brought back a budding pod of humpback whales, the Earth would have been decimated by a ticked off alien soccer ball.
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Skwege
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Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 971
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Duo Maxwell wrote: | Yeah, that's true. It might be kind of fun to see what the Star Trek universe looks like if you displayed all the the splinter or modified timelines as a result of all of the time travel stuff. (it might even resemble something similar to the Crystalline Entity)
One of the only things we know for certain is, had the crew of the Enterprise not brought back a budding pod of humpback whales, the Earth would have been decimated by a ticked off alien soccer ball. |
Well look at the various off shoots that "Yesterday's Enterprise" caused. Then Star Trek VI contradicts that episode over the issue involving The Klingons.
I won't even get into The Eugenics Wars. So that having been said, as any of us know there has been plenty of precedent for Star Trek to contradict itself for the benefit of good storytelling.
Also no matter how people try to cut it, the 1960s Enterprise sets wouldn't look good onscreen no matter what. I know people love to argue that the lighting could have changed it, and say that it worked on "Enterprise" however I really think they're deluding themselves. |
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|D.M|
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Skwege wrote: |
Also no matter how people try to cut it, the 1960s Enterprise sets wouldn't look good onscreen no matter what. I know people love to argue that the lighting could have changed it, and say that it worked on "Enterprise" however I really think they're deluding themselves. |
They could have updated old set designs.
Which they did not.
Outdoing apple store was more imprtant. 
| Skwege wrote: |
Well look at the various off shoots that "Yesterday's Enterprise" caused. Then Star Trek VI contradicts that episode over the issue involving The Klingons. |
Yes, a movie contradicting a TNG episode is clear example of TOS contradicting itself.
| Skwege wrote: | | Liebkraft wrote: | | yeah, JJ, just go on and change evertyhing, it seems that the fans won't mind! Maybe some light saber instead of phasers, because the, for some weird JJ-reason, fit better? |
Starfleet - Check
Enterprise - Check
Captain Pike - Check
Shuttlecraft - Check
Romulans - Check
etc, etc.
So what exactly did he change outside of an outdated 1960s production style and some minor continuity bits? It looks like Star Trek to me, just with a budget. We haven't had a real Star Trek MOVIE since Wrath of Khan. Everything else has come across as a feature length episode for the bigscreen. |
TOS crew served on different ships when they were cadets, not on Enterprise. (And that was NEVER contradicted)
| Skwege wrote: |
Seriously though, do people genuinely think a movie going for the exact aesthetic of of an old low budget 1960s television show would sell any tickets? It would be laughed out of the theatre.
Star Trek is about the future. It should look like the 23rd Century as we would envision it in 2008, not 1968. |
The ship design doesnt look outdated.
Who the hell would laugh at it? No one. Why the Frag would they!?
You act as if you're talking about some goofy looking rocket ship WHICH ENTERPRISE NEVER WAS!
Just because it was designed in the 60's doesnt make it automaticly laughable. So please, don't be a dick.
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