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Ultra Computron
Transforumer
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Kentucky, USA
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 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: Question for TF Artist Pros: Need Help w/ Proper Perspective |
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I can draw buildings in 2 point and 3 point perspective(s). But when it comes to drawing Transformers, whose arms and legs can twist, bend, and turn at several different angles, I'm lost. And trying to add foreshortening for more dynamic poses only complicates things further for me.
Does anyone have any advice, tips, or recommendations? Any help you offer will make you my new hero! 
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Denyer
Transforumer
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 2778
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Not a tip, more a commiseration -- a lot of readers underestimate how difficult it is to draw TFs with the sheer number of intersecting straight lines and cylinder shapes their bodies are made up of. It's easy to "cover up" minor flaws in a normal human body sketch (and many comics artists don't even bother with that -- Liefield, for instance, is still somehow getting work) but bad angles stand out very obviously on TFs.
Maybe try modelling characters in a 3D package for some practice, or use a detailed subject such as Masterpiece Prime as a sketching model in a variety of poses?
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T.V.
Slayer
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 67
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Question for TF Artist Pros: Need Help w/ Proper Perspec |
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| Ultra Computron wrote: | I can draw buildings in 2 point and 3 point perspective(s). But when it comes to drawing Transformers, whose arms and legs can twist, bend, and turn at several different angles, I'm lost. And trying to add foreshortening for more dynamic poses only complicates things further for me.
Does anyone have any advice, tips, or recommendations? Any help you offer will make you my new hero! |
Draw them initially as stickfigures...
The lines are the axis along which the limbs are 'boxed'.
Also, draw the same pose from different angles (up, down, front, side, etc.) to get a feel for the 3D positioning.
When you're comfortable with drawing boxes, cilinders from each and every angle, including using perspective exaggeration, you should be able to draw limbs and complete bodies, when knowing how you want to position the limbs.
Honestly, it's also down to experience and spatial awareness.
My tip would be to start with static poses first until you can draw those really well. Then you could gradually increase the complexity of the pose, until you get a feeling for dynamic posing.
To help posing, you could use a wooden model, which are often available at art stores. Those wil help greatly with getting the perspectives right, I reckon. |
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Ultra Computron
Transforumer
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Kentucky, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Good tips guys! Thanks a lot. 
I try to utilize them as I practice.
Does anyone else have any input?
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Snake Pliskin-o-bot
Transforumer
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 835
Location: Sheffield, England
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Hey Computron, no tips i'm afraid as i'm in the same position as you, just trying to get to grips with drawing everyones favourite giant robots. Like Denyer said, it's a lot harder than drawing human figures.
Anyway, i was just wondering what you're drawing with? Pen and Paper or a graphics tablet? Also, how long on average are you spending on a standard, full body drawing of a single character? I often spend a while drawing the basic composition but then rush the detail because i figured i've taken too long. Then i end up with a substandard picture. I can't work out if i'm crap or just rushing. |
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DonFig
Comic Book Guy
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Question for TF Artist Pros: Need Help w/ Proper Perspec |
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| Ultra Computron wrote: | I can draw buildings in 2 point and 3 point perspective(s). But when it comes to drawing Transformers, whose arms and legs can twist, bend, and turn at several different angles, I'm lost. And trying to add foreshortening for more dynamic poses only complicates things further for me.
Does anyone have any advice, tips, or recommendations? Any help you offer will make you my new hero! |
Dont draw them as buildings, except if you're drawing the city bots AS cities:)
seriously, draw them as you would a human, dont worry about perspective unless they're standing in a line.
if you want to draw one of those "in your face" coming-at-you poses, remember, the farther back a body part is, the smaller it will have to be drawn. |
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Snake Pliskin-o-bot
Transforumer
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 835
Location: Sheffield, England
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloody hell, you ask for some tips on drawing and get Don himself giving you pointers! I love how the creators take the time to interact with the readers on these forums even though they're all busy churning out our robot goodness all the time. |
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Ultra Computron
Transforumer
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Kentucky, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: Question for TF Artist Pros: Need Help w/ Proper Perspec |
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| DonFig wrote: |
Dont draw them as buildings, except if you're drawing the city bots AS cities:)
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| DonFig wrote: |
seriously, draw them as you would a human, dont worry about perspective unless they're standing in a line.
if you want to draw one of those "in your face" coming-at-you poses, remember, the farther back a body part is, the smaller it will have to be drawn. |
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question, Don! I means a lot to me. I'm sure you here it all the time, but I just have to say that I'm a huge fan of your work. Everything you produce is just so damn well done. I'm having one of those "geek-gasims" just getting the chance to interact with you and to get drawing advice (from YOU!) Drawing comics has always been a dream of mine, and you're one of the creators that I idolize the most. You take two of my favorite things that I've loved since childhood,The Transformers, and comics, and just put them to together together and make some mind blowing stuff. How could you not be my hero?
You say to not worry about perspective. When you draw your bots, do you use any kind of vanishing point at all, to get an idea of where all of your straight lines should be heading, or are you able to just take a ruler and wing it? Do you even need a ruler?
All of your bots just look so good. The way you draw them, you can tell where all the parts go and how they would move between transformations. It just looks like you could hand Hasbro any one of your drawings, and they could take it and make a functioning, fully transformable toy with out any changes needing to be made. You just seem to have a mastery of where and how to render all those parts and how they could be manipulated in a 3D space.
Oh, and sorry if I over did it with the praise, but like I said. You're my hero, dude. Again, thanks!
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Ultra Computron
Transforumer
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Kentucky, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Snake Pliskin-o-bot wrote: | Hey Computron, no tips i'm afraid as i'm in the same position as you, just trying to get to grips with drawing everyones favourite giant robots. Like Denyer said, it's a lot harder than drawing human figures.
Anyway, i was just wondering what you're drawing with? Pen and Paper or a graphics tablet? Also, how long on average are you spending on a standard, full body drawing of a single character? I often spend a while drawing the basic composition but then rush the detail because i figured i've taken too long. Then i end up with a substandard picture. I can't work out if i'm crap or just rushing. |
I just use a mechanical pencil and paper.
I wish I had a graphics tablet and Photoshop to boot!
I'm not sure how long I spend drawing a single character. I know it's a good amount of time though. I consider everything I draw that's Transformers related as "practice," so I take my time on basic composition and rendering the details. And I end up doing a lot of erasing and redrawing.
For instance, I've been working on this drawing off and on for what seems like forever:
I just can't figure out what I want to do with the legs. That's part of the reason I made this topic.
Oh, and it's suppose to be what (anime space pirate) Captain Harlock's ship, The Arcadia, would look like if it were a Transformer that resembled Harlock himself. Just in case you were wondering.
I'd suggest taking your time with the details too. I mean, as non-pros that don't have to make deadlines, we fans have the luxury of time. If you do, you should get an answer to whether your rushing yourself, or you're just "crap" (I have a feeling that it's the later, you're rushing yourself. )
| Snake Pliskin-o-bot wrote: | | Bloody hell, you ask for some tips on drawing and get Don himself giving you pointers! I love how the creators take the time to interact with the readers on these forums even though they're all busy churning out our robot goodness all the time. |
You're telling me! This is great.
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DonFig
Comic Book Guy
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Question for TF Artist Pros: Need Help w/ Proper Perspec |
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| Ultra Computron wrote: |
You say to not worry about perspective. When you draw your bots, do you use any kind of vanishing point at all, to get an idea of where all of your straight lines should be heading, or are you able to just take a ruler and wing it? Do you even need a ruler?
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I only worry about vanishing points when drawing backgrounds. specially with city-scapes, and sometimes when drawing vehicles coming at you. I rarely use it when drawing outworldly backgrounds or nature scenes.
I use a straight-edge mostly on architechtural drawings like Buildings (mostly on the outer edges), laser beams, grid lines and panel borders. most of the time, I just wing it
I tend not to like using straight-edges much, specially when I'm in the inking process since the bloody thing would smudge the ink lines as I move. |
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Ford DeceptiFocus
Transforumer
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 1442
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Snake Pliskin-o-bot wrote: | | Bloody hell, you ask for some tips on drawing and get Don himself giving you pointers! I love how the creators take the time to interact with the readers on these forums even though they're all busy churning out our robot goodness all the time. |
It's times like this that make me with I could draw better than my six-year-old nephew. Alas, it's not a talent that everyone gets.
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Denyer
Transforumer
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 2778
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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It's not something many people practise, either. It's like writing -- people want to have written.
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World Prime
Transforumer
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1212
Location: Cybertron, borough of Manhattan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Good point. I almost never just practice. Everything I do I instantly want to be a perfect drawing with lots of detail.
It's sometimes hard for me not to give up in the "piping" stage, because I always feel like I can't get the proper pose that's in my head. That and proportions are what gets me. I'm good at details and accuracy, but not overall perspective and posing.
MAN Don, I am so impressed with your ability to draw those darned movie designs! VERY IMPRESSED.
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Ultra Computron
Transforumer
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1319
Location: Kentucky, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Question for TF Artist Pros: Need Help w/ Proper Perspec |
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| DonFig wrote: |
I only worry about vanishing points when drawing backgrounds. specially with city-scapes, and sometimes when drawing vehicles coming at you. I rarely use it when drawing outworldly backgrounds or nature scenes.
I use a straight-edge mostly on architechtural drawings like Buildings (mostly on the outer edges), laser beams, grid lines and panel borders. most of the time, I just wing it
I tend not to like using straight-edges much, specially when I'm in the inking process since the bloody thing would smudge the ink lines as I move. |
Something told me you could probably just wing it. Maybe I'm hindering myself by relying too much on a ruler. As you can probably tell from the drawing I posted, almost everything I put down on paper was done with a straight edge.
And I guess I've been obsessing too much on trying to figure out perspective considering you don't even use it at all to draw your bots. I'm going to try to break myself of these two things. Then maybe I'll finally make some progress in my ongoing struggle to learn how to draw decent looking Transformers.
And about the rulers smudging your ink lines; I hear you on that one, man. I've messed up quite a few drawings trying to ink with a ruler. It always turns out bad.
Speaking of inking, what do you use? Technical pens, brushes, a combo of the two, or something else?
Thanks for all the advice/ feedback, Don. Again, it is greatly appreciated.
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T.V.
Slayer
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 67
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Don't use rulers.. unless you're really good with them.
Rulers are often more a detriment than a help, because those 'extra straight' lines make perspective and posing faults show up more.
Also, do some practice sketches of the piece you want to draw.
If you already have decided on the general composition, then the finished product will be easier to draw, because you don't have to make up as much as you go along and don't need to worry as much.
I'm also one of those who often skips the practice stage going straight into the 'final' piece, but that often works less well. |
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