IDW Publishing Forums

[Duo Maxwell]

Quite simply, "canon" is what you personally want it to be for the Sunbow series. Beast Wars and, by extension... Beast Machines (I think I threw up a little typing that out, but I digress) are more of a splinter with select ties to the Sunbow series as opposed to a direct continuation.

Why? Well, Larry DiTillio chose to ignore anything Vector Sigma or Quintesson-related, while adding in elements exclusive to the comics. The follow up whose name shall not be repeated, however, not only brought Vector Sigma into the beast era, but also the Plasma Energy Chamber.

The problem is to explain away certain discrepancies, which I cannot recall at this time, I just remember them being brought up on the TF newsgroup eons ago, the Takara Japanese series needs to be included, but Cybertron is destroyed partway through Headmasters with Rodimus, Kup and Blurr leaving to search for a new homeworld, which would mean Cybertron in the beast era is not the Cybertron from the Sunbow series, therefore neither Vector Sigma nor the Plasma Energy Chamber (which didn't exist in the Japanese series, as they ignored "Rebirth") should not exist by that point.

So, for me, what I consider "canon" to the Sunbow series is everything which happens on screen/ during the Sunbow series (which is also the criteria for nitpicking), so that would be "More Than Meets the Eye" through "The Rebirth" along with the movie. Any sort of preliminary notes or comments made by creators or producers are not canon as they are not represented by events which happens (or are referenced) within the show itself.

But, like I said, it comes down to personal preference. That was mine, thus your mileage may vary.
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[CyclonusArmada]

True. I completely discount the Takara series as it wasn't on TV alongside Sunbow in the West, so I usually forget all about it. Beast Wars was obviously done with this in mind also as there is no reference to anything Takara related at all.
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[Duo Maxwell]

I would actually go so far as to say I ignore "The Rebirth" as the ending to "The Return of Optimus Prime" was a far better conclusion to the Sunbow cartoon than The Rebirth.
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[FDrowned]

From TF Wiki

[Duo Maxwell]

It's the attitude displayed in the TF Wiki which is why I ignore anything said by that resource. If they want to be taken seriously, they should just provide the facts, without any biased or obnoxious commentary.

Furthermore, there aren't any supporting references to the claim so, with it being a wiki and all, I think it should be excused if I don't take the information at face value. All it needs is a link to corroborating information.

The problem with the claim, however is Cybertron, as depicted in the latter series which I will not name, does not feature any of the damage inflicted within the Headmasters series. It seems highly unlikely, not to mention illogical, that obsolete sections of Cybertron would be rebuilt only to be built over if the later series is to be believed. However, my dislike of the latter series is well documented, so I don't particularly subscribe to its presentation.

Take a look at this shot of Cybertron from Headmasters, for example... that's right, the core was completely destroyed. It cannot be the same "Cybertron" from the latter series, as Vector Sigma and the Plasma Energy Chamber would have clearly been destroyed, along with whatever that was which took the place of a molten core which the latter series would have us believe oozed out of every crack on Cybertron.

But... hey, like I said, what we consider canon is a personal decision. Just because I've concluded that certain elements from post-Sunbow series which are claimed to be tied to the Sunbow series are rubbish, it doesn't mean anybody else cannot embrace them into what they consider canon.
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[FDrowned]

For what it's worth, like Mr Armada, I don't include the japanese stuff in my personal canon, so it doesn't really matter to me.

As far as I'm concerned, Sunbow, Marvel, Dreamwave and IDW are all separate. The first 3 feature BW & BM, the 4th doesn't.

However, can I just say that when we started IDW Cybertron was a wasteland and now it isn't. Just because you don't see something happen on screen or it isn't spelt out, doesn't mean it's a plot hole
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"Running away with a Spaceman in a box, anything could happen to you"

[CyclonusArmada]

Always a little dissapointed in BM that there was no reference or nod to the The Hand Print that should have been on the surface of Cybertron.
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[FDrowned]

I'm surprised Primus didn't react to having his ass touched like that

Especially by his nemesis
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"Running away with a Spaceman in a box, anything could happen to you"

[Duo Maxwell]

[CyclonusArmada]

[Bass X0]

[Urzu Six]

I quite happily discount The Rebirth, as the Japanese Headmasters series makes a hell of a lot more sense as a concept. Execution, however...
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[Duo Maxwell]

[CyclonusArmada]

I really liked The Rebirth for what it was: The opening storyline to season 4 and I probably would have liked where Sunbow would have gone with it far more than the Takara series.
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[Duo Maxwell]

The problem is, it was always intended to be the end of the Sunbow series, as confirmed by David Wise in the interview he gave on the Rhino DVD. So, yeah, if it was just the opening storyline to season 4 (in its originally conceived five episode incarnation and not truncated into a barely watchable parade of characters), that would be different, but as a finale to the animated series, it leaves much to be desired.

When you compare the two final moments between the end of Rebirth and Return of OP, the ending to "Rebirth" gives the impression of an unresolved story, with Galvatron and Zarak arguing over who will rule the galaxy. Whereas with "Return of OP" the episode ends in a truce (however temporary) after Galvatron tells Optimus he's earned his respect. Then the Autobots "transform and roll out" and that's it. It's not as conclusive like the end of the Headmasters series, but it certainly works as a finale.
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