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Kirjava
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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Location: OberÖsterreich
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 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, because there is an absolute dearth of real women in everyday life to maybe help make you aware that Starfire isn't how women look.
Pathetic.
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Bampot
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I really would love to hear what his girlfriend thinks about this. |
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Sprite
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Kirjava
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3817
Location: OberÖsterreich
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Well those forum posts were almost as depressing as the original article.
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temple
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Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 4412
Location: Somewhere dark
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Kirjava wrote: | | Well those forum posts were almost as depressing as the original article. |
Too true; most of the posters are the reason we can't have nice things.
As the person who first linked this whole hoohah to Sprite (although I needn't have bothered; it snowballed across the internet pretty fast), I gotta say the original blogpost was horribly, horribly offensive.
The main defense is that it was meant satirically. A few problems with this:
a) it wasn't actually funny; it's usually fine to be shocking and offensive if you do it in a genuinely humourous fashion.
b) the actual object of said satire isn't obvious; I would assume it was meant to be aimed at sad internet fanboys who discuss lists like this, but that's really not immediately apparent - perhaps if he had written the list as a persona of some sort it would have been better.
c) without prior knowledge of Gunn/reading the rest of his blogposts, you would have no way of knowing these weren't his actual views.
d) sadly, the kind of mysogyny, homophobia and tasteless sexism displayed in the post are all too common in entirely humourless posts throughout the comics fandom. To a lot of people (see a lot of the forementioned posters), this does nothing but reinforce their own repellent views.
Gunn's apology speaks well of him; he seems to realise the problems people have with the post, and doesn't try to weasel out of saying sorry for it. It's another example of why people in the industry have to be very careful of what they say, no matter how they mean it, especially on the internet.
I've seen a lot of complaints about the 'PC brigade' over this whole issue, and while I would never support censorship of any kind, I think you have to draw the line somewhere and have a healthy discussion about this sort of thing. The fact that SO MANY people found the material offensive denotes it as a topic to debate in any case; and I think the resultant apology is the best ending we could have seen from the whole affair, even if it has once again exposed the less than savoury members of our little comics community.
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Bampot
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| temple wrote: | | a) it wasn't actually funny; it's usually fine to be shocking and offensive if you do it in a genuinely humourous fashion. |
I think this was the biggest problem with the whole thing. It wasn't even near being funny. Offensive jokes are funny because they're jokes. What he was saying wasn't coming off as something he was joking about, which gives the reader the impression that he truly believes these things. The "turning" joke was offensive simple because that happens. There are men who believe you can do that and it has resulted in rape. It wasn't funny, it was ignorant and something that he needed to be corrected on. I really hope his apology was truthful and not just to save his skin. |
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Kirjava
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3817
Location: OberÖsterreich
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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If it was meant to be satire it was bloody awful satire- the whole point of satire is to take what you're satirising to extremes to make fun of it, whereas what he wrote was just... well, it was exactly the same as what you can find all over the internet.
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Cyberstrike
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 770
Location: A dead planet called Earth
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Bampot wrote: | | temple wrote: | | a) it wasn't actually funny; it's usually fine to be shocking and offensive if you do it in a genuinely humourous fashion. |
I think this was the biggest problem with the whole thing. It wasn't even near being funny. Offensive jokes are funny because they're jokes. What he was saying wasn't coming off as something he was joking about, which gives the reader the impression that he truly believes these things. The "turning" joke was offensive simple because that happens. There are men who believe you can do that and it has resulted in rape. It wasn't funny, it was ignorant and something that he needed to be corrected on. I really hope his apology was truthful and not just to save his skin. |
Now I'm not defending any of this guy's so-called "jokes" but I must point out for the record, that some jokes are funny when heard by someone speaking and yet not funny when somebody reads them. There are of course some jokes that are never funny no matter if one reads or hears them and vice versa.
Be that as it may if you have to say something that offensive as the turning "joke" then maybe you shouldn't try to write comdey. And it's also possible that Kate Kane has sex with a man like maybe when she was in high school before she realized she was a lesbian, [insert joke here if you want I'm not going to because I can't think of any good jokes and send it to Gunn if you wish]
^The above paragraph is meant as a joke so please don't take it seriously I'm just trying to show how you MIGHT make a better joke out of this mess.
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Sprite
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Location: The Lost Light
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Cyberstrike
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 770
Location: A dead planet called Earth
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I know a lot of Mass Effect fans, both male and female, that were very upset of Ashley Williams "make over" for ME3, citing that they felt her appearance in the first 2 games was sexier because she looked more real woman, and have been asking BioWare to put a old look for her in alternate appearance pack.
Then you have the characters of Miranda Lawson and Jack both of which got attacked as sexist because of their looks. There were times in ME2 where Miranda, who is an interesting character IMO, but there were more than more one time where the camera would focus on her ass while she was speaking. Then you have the character of Jack a bald, tattooed, and foul mouthed woman who wore only suspenders over her nipples until you did a loyality quest and she gets a shirt (or buy one of the alternate appearance packs that gave her a real bad ass looking suit but an ugly grey bar over eyes), again her character is interesting once you got past her look.
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Sprite
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RaggaeTron
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Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 878
Location: Ævørikkjeåsei, Norway
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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This guy is in his f*cking forties! He has been on this earth for 4 decades yet he is still too dimwitted to think “hmm, this sophomoric humor of mine might come off as a little too juvenile and offensive”. I mean really, this grown *ss man should’ve known better, he’s not in college anymore, he’s 8 years away from 50.
You know the nightmare Isaiah Washington had through and the consequences he suffered for calling a co-star the F-word? Well, I hope James Gunn will suffer the same ordeal X10. I mean, he can’t just get a slap on the wrist and get away by coughing up a shallow excuse?
Huh, I didn’t know "dog peeing on a pole" was a sensual pose. I guess it doesn’t matter how silly their poses are as long as their crotch, legs or boobs are showing.
And here we have the holy trinity! Cudos to the artist. He even included an orgasm face! Bonus points!
Too bad her * isn't showing. I'm really disappointed.
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Omega Prime
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Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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This Hawkeye thing is absurd. Nightwing is already a strong female character.
He really likes showing off his *...
...and getting tied up. Kinky.
Don't draw Hawkeye in god-awful poses, take scans of Dick Grayson in worse ones.
(This joke comes to you courtesy of a Tumblr user whose name I forget.)
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RaggaeTron
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Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 878
Location: Ævørikkjeåsei, Norway
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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But is it really that simple, are men really that simple? If you portray a heroine with a cleavage on the cover, does the chances of purchase really increase? And if so, is the increase really significant? Is it worth it?
If the first pic you posted of Nightwing had been on a cover, I wouldn't have purchased it. Well I would've thought "dat ass!" and moved on. But if it had been a robot or a real nasty lookin' monster, then, yeah, I might've bought that. Surely people read X-men or Wonder Woman for other reasons than 2d, comic cleavage. I honestly don't think they would loose anything by having covers of fully clothed women.
I don't think ABC Warriors have a lot of female readers, which is too bad. It's a macho comic, but doesn't assert it's machoness by objectifying women. .... it's-um- kind of the other way around....
  
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Omega Prime
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Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| RaggaeTron wrote: | But is it really that simple, are men really that simple? If you portray a heroine with a cleavage on the cover, does the chances of purchase really increase? And if so, is the increase really significant? Is it worth it?
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Well, the last comic I purchased which had a female on it was Robots in Disguise #11. Specifically, this one:
That cleavage doesn't really have any "cleave" to it. What that cover does have a lot of, however, is MURDER
The last comic I purchased which had a heroine with cleavage on the cover was this one:
I purchased Ruin specifically because of the cover, so maybe cleave does help? At the same time, that female character is holding a rifle, wearing full body armor, and is sharing cover-space with a snake made out of saw-blades. (Also, I recommend you pick this series up if you haven't. I've only read a single issue, but the art is GORGEOUS)
In September, I bought Uncanny X-Men #1. This was the cover to that issue:
While Scarlet Witch is boobing out, Rogue is just as covered as the guys on that cover (save her face and hands, but that's because of her powers and a need for visibility, not a nefarious plot to sell comics to neckbeards). At any rate, I bought that issue because I thought it was the Avengers series written by Jonathan Hickman it was the start of Marvel NOW! and I need my Marvel NOW! obviously.
The comic with the most "clevasious" (that's a word now, guys) cover I've gotten in a while was Fantastic Four #608:
And I picked that up because I've been reading Fantastic Four since the middle of Hickman's run (though the fact Storm was wearing a bikini while Susan Storm was modeling did tick me off).
I might be an exception, but as part of the demographic (adolescent males/deprived nerds, before anyone asks) that covers exploiting women are meant to cater to, it does not increase my chance of buying a comic.
Also, Raggae, those scans were so awesome I am now going to pick up the first volume of ABC Warriors. Thanks.
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Trust me, when we all wake up and realise we've started a religious cult, we'll all ask for toast and butter and the facts again.
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