IDW Publishing Forums

[KJ]

I would t say X-Men has always been good with diversity, but certainly since the relaunch of the All-New team, it's done pretty well.

It's kinda funny with that older stuff, post Giant-Size. They did very well for diversity , but some of the characters were laughable stereotypes. Banshee and Thunderbird are the best examples. Banshee even had a castle and leprechauns, and smoked a pipe!

I've recently given up on the X-books (so happy they've done so much of my favourite past material and crossovers/events in those beautiful Hardcovers and omniboo). But they were quite good, with a smattering of gay characters on the frontline, always a welcome sight.

I just wish the recent marriage of Northstar and Kyle didn't have to be a highly publicised event that attracted media attention. I don't want it to be 'gay marriage'. I just want us to be able to call it what it is: 'marriage'. We're getting there, but I think that's sadly still a fair way away.

They have lost their premiere icon of diversity: Storm. Writers didn't know how to handle her for years , and with her whole horrible marriage, she had a long absence from the X-books, and away from A-list books. Then her integration was all awkward. How do you handle a queen of a foreign country still flying across the world and fighting evil? Their explanation, that she was 'bored', rang hollow, and wasn't consistent with the character.

And as for the difference between male/female nudity/skimpiness and sex appeal, there's a few things. General build is a big one. Females have curves, and curves are sexy, even when accentuated. There's a flow and fluidity to the female body that sparkles in art form.

Not so the male body. We're all angles and cut lines (my cut lines are just hidden under some blubber). We also tend to look pretty ridiculous in skimpy outfits or nude. Underwear goes against the flow of our body, and makes things appear even more silly, a lot of the time. And we're a mess naked.

Female genitals aren't very visible, and don't disrupt the flow of the body (they work with it, flowing with the natural curves, and solidifying the look), whereas guys look as though our genitals were an afterthought, and just stuck on there.

We look funny naked. Really, we do. When aroused, we look even funnier.
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[Sprite]

Yeah, but there's curves... and then there's really weird, distorted, unnatural curves. Believe me, I love the curves in old superhero comics. Definitely feminine, lovely posed... It's when women are posed in deliberately sexy poses all the time, their breasts perked up in ways no breasts should perk, with their (scanty) costumes clinging in ways fabric doesn't cling, that cries of "objectivication!" arise. Believe me, female readers don't mind sexy women in comics. It's when they're portrayed as unnatural lumps of flesh drawn for male gratification that we start having a problem with it.

Also, if you think male characters can't have sex appeal... I can probably direct you to an army of fangirls who will disagree with you. Really, men are drawn sexy, in scanty clothing, all over the internet (or more commonly no clothing at all). I think the reason why you don't generally see men drawn like that in comics has more to do with the fact that it's mostly men drawing them, than that it can't be done.
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[Jeysie]

Male anatomy in comics is just as unrealistic as female anatomy, so there's little point in making a gripe there.

And, you're forgetting that most of those women drawing naked guys are drawing either the very super-muscular guys that feminist claim aren't a female fantasy (ironically), or the exact opposite, super-bishonen guys who look, as I like to put it, like flat-chested girls with penises.

For most guys in-between... I agree with KJ. I don't want to say the male body is ugly or boring, exactly, but it benefits more from costuming than the female body does in terms of sexiness.

That's why all these sorts of comparison pics fall utterly flat in making their point effectively... but Sprite's heard me gripe about that one before. Seriously, though, anyone got a link to something that actually genuinely shows what it'd look like if guys were equally sexualized without resorting to either sticking guys in replicas of female costumes or showing them super-bishonen?

Here, just for kicks, is a few pinups from my DA faves.

Guys: 1 2 3 4 5

Fully clothed ladies, as a contrast: 1 2

And whatever you want to make of this pic.

(...you know, it's funny, I have any number of pics of cute guys, but very few in compositions that could be construed as outright sexy compared to the number of pics of cute girls in sexy poses. There's some message there.)

[Omega Prime]

[Jeysie]

[Omega Prime]

[Sprite]

I think this is about right:

http://elf-fin.deviantart.com/art/NUDU-PoolParty-Szekeres-136002360?q=gallery%3Aelf-fin%2F8803436&qo=117

http://elf-fin.deviantart.com/art/ChinaBoy-Szekeres-46927914?q=gallery%3Aelf-fin%2F8803436&qo=212

http://elf-fin.deviantart.com/art/Energy-Blow-Szekeres-96874577?q=gallery%3Aelf-fin%2F8803436&qo=159
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[Omega Prime]

[Jeysie]

[Sprite]

Oh dear.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/11/13/hey-quasi-pretty-not-hot-girl-you-are-more-pathetic-than-the-real-nerds-tony-harris/
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[RaggaeTron]

Holy cow... that was... um... aggressive.

Is that really the case? I've never been to a con. But really, are the posers really that much of a bother....?
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[Sprite]

It's kind of unclear what is meant by "posers". Apparently some stands hire "booth girls" to promote their products and those are just hired models. But this post doesn't specify that. Far as I can tell it's about girls pretending to be geeks attending conventions just to get a lot of male attention, but really - how can you tell, right?

There do seem to be fans having a problem with cosplayers clogging the isles and that is something I can understand. Also, I'm not in favour of female cosplayers going nude-nuder-nudest at a convention because it doesn't exactly help the comic industry's already unfortunate view of women, but regardless...

...the language this guy uses with regard to these girls is simply not on.
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[Bampot]

While I've never been to a con, I find it hard to believe that someone would put in that amount of time, effort, and money solely for attention. And even if the girls are non-fans, what are they hurting? If the reason they enjoy going to conventions is to cosplay and have fun, then isn't that a legit reason for them to be there? And how would you even be able to tell if they're fans or not? Although, I still find that whole idea very unlikely. It just seems like he can't believe that all those women would be there if not to attract men. Like having a vagina deters your ability to truly enjoy something like comics. Feeling pretty sorry for his co-workers right now.

All in all, I'm enjoying this weird fantasy world he lives in where slutty cosplay harpies are preying on innocent virgin fanboys.

[Sprite]

I'm very glad to see that the comic community seems less and less tolerant of this kind of attitude. Most comments I've read are from people who seem pretty appalled at his behaviour.

And, as has been pointed out elsewhere... even if the girls aren't comic fans, this is a golden opportunity to get them interested, right?
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[Kirjava]