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Teesa
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 144
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 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Cyberstrike wrote: | | Teesa wrote: | | Liefeld needs to be fired. WHY DO THEY KEEP HIRING HIM ARGHHHH?!?! |
DC did fire him and he whined about Scott Snyder and pissed off Tom Beevroot, (I'm not sure if I spelled his last name right), one of the top editors at Marvel on Twitter.
Back on topic J. Scott Cambell made his career and reputation on drawing women like he did on G.I. Joe/Danger Girl cover.
So I don't quite understand what the problem here is. He's always drawn women like that even going back to his days on Gen-13 and the first Danger Girl mini-series he did for Wildstorm when it was a part of Image Comics. The same with his covers to the Marvel G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero Classics vols. 1-5 (and I think IDW kept them when they reprinted and he might have done a few more of them for IDW), he also drew the cover to G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1 for DDP/Image.
So why are people making a big deal out his art for G.I. Joe/Danger Girl when he's been drawing cover to various G.I. Joe TPBs and series for years? If his art offends so much you then I think you all shouldn't just complain about Scott's cover art for this series then complain about his art he's done the various G.I. Joe TPBs and series series he's drawn over the years. |
As shanecdavis says below, this is indeed my first exposure to this 'style' of art. I just don't see how any one could look at that and not say, at least, 'why is that lady's legs twice as long as they should be?'. Looking at her gives me uncanny valley feels. |
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Teesa
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Blanco wrote: |
In addition, I can't see the problem with Lady Jaye being a mother in the TF universe... my better half is a mother thrice over, and still as amazing as she was before having any kids 
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It speaks to hetero-normalcy, at least in my opinion. Female character get paired up with a guy, then goes on to have kids. I will admit that me being child-free (not wanting any) may color my opinion. |
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Rockhammer
Transforumer
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 706
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| shanecdavis wrote: |
Yes, fraternization is alive and well in the military, but what bugs me is having EVERY female on the team hooking up with a guy on the team. I assume that the 200-some odd male Joes dated and had relationships with females that weren't Joes (BIG assumption on my part), so why not a female character have a relationship with a civilian? |
Very good point, Shane. I was actually thinking more along the lines of the Joes normally being confined to base (or spending 80% plus of their time there), but you're absolutely right--every once in a while they must be able to go on leave or be off base (much like how Rip Cord met Candy). That would be a good story, and something that hasn't really been done before in the G.i.Joe ARAH comic.
I fully agree with you on the DDP Cover Girl/Shipwreck thing... ugh.
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Blanco
Comic Book Guy
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| shanecdavis wrote: | | but what bugs me is having EVERY female on the team hooking up with a guy on the team. I assume that the 200-some odd male Joes dated and had relationships with females that weren't Joes (BIG assumption on my part), so why not a female character have a relationship with a civilian? |
Agree on this part; I think that's why I hated the DDP Shipwreck/Cover-Girl thing - the relationship aspect had already been covered, there was no need for it. The civvy/female Joe dynamic would be fresh - in fact, I'd kind of hoped that the Origins issue with Scarlett and her acquaintance may have gone down this route.
| teesa wrote: | | It speaks to hetero-normalcy, at least in my opinion. |
I don't disagree with this point, but I do feel that it would be just one facet of the character, rather than defining the character. Again, if every female character were being paired off and making babies, it would be unnecessary, but one couple isn't be a problem for me.
In fact, I think this is one aspect which hasn't been altogether covered off is any of the Joes having kids - funnily enough only Cobra Commander (I realise I'm again discounting DDP...). Having said that, this is GI Joe, and not 'The Unit'
Am I right in thinking there were plans at one point in the IDW-verse for a character leaving behind a family to 'die' to join the Joes? |
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JohnJett
Comic Book Guy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 31
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Teesa wrote: |
It speaks to hetero-normalcy, at least in my opinion. Female character get paired up with a guy, then goes on to have kids. I will admit that me being child-free (not wanting any) may color my opinion. |
Is that sort of like Arcee being paired up romantically with Hot Rod and then Springer?
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Teesa
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| JohnJett wrote: | | Teesa wrote: |
It speaks to hetero-normalcy, at least in my opinion. Female character get paired up with a guy, then goes on to have kids. I will admit that me being child-free (not wanting any) may color my opinion. |
Is that sort of like Arcee being paired up romantically with Hot Rod and then Springer? |
Yes, due to the fact that they also paired off almost every other 'main' femme: Elita-1 & Optimus, Chromia & Ironhide, Airazor & Tigatron, Blackarachnia & Silverbolt, Strika & Lugnut...and I'm probably missing some more.
I will admit that I did, and do, like Arcee/Springer; they were my first 'ship  |
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shanecdavis
Transforumer
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 1794
Location: Saratoga Springs, UT
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Wow, I didn't know there were girl Transformers. Learned something new today. |
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Teesa
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| shanecdavis wrote: | | Wow, I didn't know there were girl Transformers. Learned something new today. |
Truth? Or sarcasm? XD |
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JohnJett
Comic Book Guy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 31
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Teesa wrote: |
I will admit that I did, and do, like Arcee/Springer; they were my first 'ship |
You might like the Arcee/Springer dynamic the same way others enjoy the Flint/Lady Jaye relationship.
As a storytelling device, it can really open up the personalities and story possibilities in ways that don't exist without pairing up two characters. Flint is a fairly one-dimensional soldier without the addition of Lady Jaye. With her, we're allowed to see a side of him that wouldn't exist otherwise. She also interacts with him in ways that other characters, due to rank mostly, are not able to.
The relationship Lady Jaye shares with Flint also expands her character: she is a strong-willed, independent personality who doesn't play second fiddle to him, regardless of their pairing.
As a fan, I love the addition of Marissa Faireborn. Not only does it tie two of my favorite universes together, but it solidifies the bond between two of my favorite characters and at the same time introduces a new character that may combine the best of both.
I'd like to think that this transcends "hetero-normalcy" by being simply good storytelling.
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Rockhammer
Transforumer
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 706
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Indeed. Plus, here are a few things I forgot to mention earlier:
The relationship of Marissa Fairborne to Flint and Lady Jaye is just something implied by her name (Flint's last name) and the voice actress that played her (whom also played Lady Jaye IIRC). AFAIK no one in the creative team has unequivocally stated that she is Flint and Lady Jaye's daughter. And if they had, it would only have been the Sunbow writers (with rubber-stamping from Hasbro) that would have created said relationship. The comic (ARAH) characters weren't always related as shown on the Sunbow cartoon. Lt. Falcon isn't Duke's brother, for instance, in the ARAH continuity. Lady Jaye's relationship to Destro (or lack thereof) is another example.
On the subject of female transformers: how do they make any sense? Transformers are robots, which are asexual machines. I never could figure that one out, unless we're trying to psycho-analyze the writers and audience by use of a metaphor where robots are assumed to be humans characters in sheep's clothing or something along those lines. Way too deep for me, man... this is an action comic/cartoon 
Speaking of which, Simon Furman's explanation of Arcee made a lot more sense... it was very disturbing, but it made a lot more sense to me.
Lastly, regarding some comments made by Teesa on the anatomy of JSC's women and his style, I'll add that I get a visceral reaction similar to that when I look at any Japanese manga character (Why are their eyes soooo huge?! Why are they popping out of their skulls like that? How can that forehead vein expand that much without busting?! Why are their heads so huge? etc.), so I can see where she's coming from... but it is a style (no need for quotes). In fact, I think JSC was very much influenced by Jim Lee.
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shanecdavis
Transforumer
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 1794
Location: Saratoga Springs, UT
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Teesa wrote: | | Truth? Or sarcasm? XD |
Absolute truth. I guess it would make sense that there would be, but honestly I never gave it much thought.
Not sure what universe this Marissa Fairborne belongs to, but I can't lie and say I wouldn't like it if Flint and Lady Jaye got married and had a kid. That would bring an interesting dynamic to the book. I liked how Billy was handled (before all the deaths and revivals and brainwashing), and I thought Jerwa did a brilliant job with Sean Collins. I wouldn't mind if Mr. Hama introduced a son or daughter of Gen. Flagg or Gen. Austin or Gen. Ryan or even Hawk himself! Now THAT would be cool! |
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Torpedo
Transforumer
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 1919
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| shanecdavis wrote: | | I wouldn't mind if Mr. Hama introduced a son or daughter of Gen. Flagg or Gen. Austin or Gen. Ryan or even Hawk himself! Now THAT would be cool! |
Yeah, but the son has to be black so they can make the connection to Samuel Jackson in the movie univer--oops! Heh. Wrong franchise.
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Teesa
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| shanecdavis wrote: | | Teesa wrote: | | Truth? Or sarcasm? XD |
Absolute truth. I guess it would make sense that there would be, but honestly I never gave it much thought.
Not sure what universe this Marissa Fairborne belongs to, but I can't lie and say I wouldn't like it if Flint and Lady Jaye got married and had a kid. That would bring an interesting dynamic to the book. I liked how Billy was handled (before all the deaths and revivals and brainwashing), and I thought Jerwa did a brilliant job with Sean Collins. I wouldn't mind if Mr. Hama introduced a son or daughter of Gen. Flagg or Gen. Austin or Gen. Ryan or even Hawk himself! Now THAT would be cool! |
You've never watched any of the cartoons? Marissa Fairborne is in G1.
I'm trying to think if there was ever an offspring in comics that I liked... |
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Teesa
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Rockhammer wrote: | Indeed. Plus, here are a few things I forgot to mention earlier:
On the subject of female transformers: how do they make any sense? Transformers are robots, which are asexual machines. I never could figure that one out, unless we're trying to psycho-analyze the writers and audience by use of a metaphor where robots are assumed to be humans characters in sheep's clothing or something along those lines. Way too deep for me, man... this is an action comic/cartoon
Speaking of which, Simon Furman's explanation of Arcee made a lot more sense... it was very disturbing, but it made a lot more sense to me.
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First, I do not like Furman's concept of Arcee. S/he goes hysterical (to use a misogynistic word) just because s/he is trapped in a body considered female. WTF?
I look at "female" Transformers like this. First, the whole race is neither male nor female (asexual isn't the right word BTW). Now, going back to G1 canon, they were created for war and for domestic situations that were going to be sold to other races, whom may have had gender roles. These races might have preferred a robot with a 'femme' frame, perhaps because their culture worshiped women, or perhaps a female only race would want their robots to look and sound like them.
I don't see why the comics had to get rid off every canon female, then introduce a cray-cray Arcee who was technically a mech. Even though I consider them genderless, you can't help but see that there structures lean toward masculine concepts.
TF:Animated did well, I think,by introducing various body types among the 'mechs' and 'femmes'. Prime *kinda* did this, what with Starscream's thigh high stilleto hooker boots.
/end of ramble |
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shanecdavis
Transforumer
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 1794
Location: Saratoga Springs, UT
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't watched Transformer cartoons in about 20 years, so if there actually was a female Autobot or Decepticon, I was clueless about it. I have seen the Transformer movies, but again none of them seemed to be female. I remember one of the motorcycle Autobots had a female hologram, but that was the closest to female I can remember. But again, I could be totally wrong.
| Teesa wrote: | TF:Animated did well, I think,by introducing various body types among the 'mechs' and 'femmes'. Prime *kinda* did this, what with Starscream's thigh high stilleto hooker boots.
/end of ramble |
Wait, wait, wait, wait, WAIT. Starscream is female????? Not sure I want to know about Arcee either. Sounds like a cousin of mine. |
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