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RiceDaddy07
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 214
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 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| What is this All Hail Megatron that you speak of? It is quite nonsense to declare it happened. That is legend, you hear? Shane McCarthy never wrote this book! It was all a dream... |
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General Tekno
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 1685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| ultramagnus1 wrote: | | General Tekno wrote: | I had nothing against Spike ending the war. It fit with the whole "humans are important" theme that tends to happen in the franchise. And after all, Megatron DID trash Earth.
Do recall this was before Spike's character got wrecked. |
Yes and if rumors are to believe he may be back.
Spikes character started going downhill in the AHM Coda Man Of Steel. |
Agreed. I didn't mind his use under Shane's watch in AHM.
Heck - I'm still a defender of AHM as a story. It was effective in what it was trying to do. And yes, there's cliched moments here and there, but they were presented well.
Plus, the series had a ton of images I love. Like Devastator's reveal,whenever Omega Supreme deus ex machinaed in, Ratbat taking out Spike's squad.... then you get the other stuff like Kup and Sparkplug being awesome.
(Mind, it also had Hunter's ignoble end, which I didn't like, but at the very least Shane did acknowledge and use that storyline despite his retconning of aspects of it.)
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General Tekno
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 1685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Fusion blast wrote: | | ultramagnus1 wrote: | | General Tekno wrote: | I had nothing against Spike ending the war. It fit with the whole "humans are important" theme that tends to happen in the franchise. And after all, Megatron DID trash Earth.
Do recall this was before Spike's character got wrecked. |
Yes and if rumors are to believe he may be back.
Spikes character started going downhill in the AHM Coda Man Of Steel. |
What? Spike back? No. No no no no no. That's gotta be wrong, man, you must be mistaken.
While I disliked Spike from the beginning I think Megatron being taken out by a surprise factor since Prime can't defeat him was OK. But the whole war ending just because of that? That I didn't buy.
The Decepticons had won, they had colonies all over the galaxy and warships orbiting Earth. AND they had capable (and loyal) sub-commanders (more capable than Starscream) to take over while Megatron was down. They could've blasted NY or even the whole Earth after they knew OP's crew was on it. Then again, most of the plot in AHM didn't make much sense to me. |
I honestly didn't buy the war ending just like that either. I was actually pretty shocked when they made the claim in AHM 13 that the Decepticons had lost, when everything that had come before suggested a defeat in leadership but not a loss of the war.
Note though that it wasn't Shane who declared the Decepticons the losers. If anything, it came across to me that the Autobots had won the BATTLE and saved Earth, but they'd STILL lost the war because the Decepticons had annihilated their army. The war was over before the events in AHM 1 even occurred, in my reading of it.
Sure, the 'cons would then devolve into infighting due to Megatron being down, but that does NOT mean they lost the war. Heck - I further had a distaste for the whole "Earth is where EVERYBODY went" angle the Bumblebee mini implied based on all the random 'cons they rounded up.
...come to think, did we ever even SEE most of those guys again in the breakout?
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Kirjava
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3816
Location: OberÖsterreich
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Some people worked themselves into knots trying to come up with explanations as to why the Decepticon empire fell apart so rapidly- one that I can remember (though I can't recall whose idea it was) took the baton of McCarthy trying to compare Megatron to human dictators, and compared the end of AHM with the end of the Second World War, arguing that Nazi Germany effectively collapsed after the death of Hitler (if I've remembered that incorrectly, whoever's idea it was is welcome to correct me!).
The analogy fails, as was pointed out at the time, because the Decepticon empire is nowhere near the state of collapse that the Third Reich was when it fell. At the time of Hitler's death, the Allies were pushing in on three flanks, bombing had taken its toll on Germany's infrastructure and resources were running low if they were there at all. At the time of Megatron's death, the Decepticons had won, or at least we were repeatedly told by almost every character who ventured an opinion that they had won. Not that there was much evidence of that- the great Autobot defeat in the ambush brought about by Sunstreaker's treachery resulted in precisely 0 casualties. Even Prime, who was supposed to be at death's door, wasn't even taken out by a Decepticon. He was worked over a bit by Megatron then fried by doing something with the space bridge.
Long story short, the premise for AHM (and then subsequently the Ongoing) was never, in any way, shape or form, satisfactorily explained.
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Sprite
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 14660
Location: The Lost Light
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Well, the Decepticon army probably suffered a lot of losses during their blitzkrieg as well - it might have been a marginal victory, easily turned. Probably.
Speculation aside, I would have loved it if the series following AHM had dealt with the Autobots venturing out in space, using Earth as their fallout base (possibly with some alliance with the humans), trying to reclaim their territory.
One of my pet peeves about AHM still is that it never actually dealt with the Decepticon Surge, only the fallout. Because all those Autobot outposts dealing with the sudden attacks would have been hella interesting and could have led to a great variety of stories (frantic escapes, heroic charges, daredevil stunts etc.).
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General Tekno
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 1685
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Kirjava wrote: | Some people worked themselves into knots trying to come up with explanations as to why the Decepticon empire fell apart so rapidly- one that I can remember (though I can't recall whose idea it was) took the baton of McCarthy trying to compare Megatron to human dictators, and compared the end of AHM with the end of the Second World War, arguing that Nazi Germany effectively collapsed after the death of Hitler (if I've remembered that incorrectly, whoever's idea it was is welcome to correct me!).
The analogy fails, as was pointed out at the time, because the Decepticon empire is nowhere near the state of collapse that the Third Reich was when it fell. At the time of Hitler's death, the Allies were pushing in on three flanks, bombing had taken its toll on Germany's infrastructure and resources were running low if they were there at all. At the time of Megatron's death, the Decepticons had won, or at least we were repeatedly told by almost every character who ventured an opinion that they had won. Not that there was much evidence of that- the great Autobot defeat in the ambush brought about by Sunstreaker's treachery resulted in precisely 0 casualties. Even Prime, who was supposed to be at death's door, wasn't even taken out by a Decepticon. He was worked over a bit by Megatron then fried by doing something with the space bridge.
Long story short, the premise for AHM (and then subsequently the Ongoing) was never, in any way, shape or form, satisfactorily explained. |
Well, the fact nobody seemed to die was kinda an after-the-fact retcon. And given Prowl's cited that the number of combatants was down to thousands, honestly I'd have been okay with the idea that the Surge took out most of the remaining Autobot army to the point where only hundreds survived.
I think it's less of a failing of Shane, more of a result of the subsequent writers retconning the importance of the Surge in winning the war/destroying the Autobot army.
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RiceDaddy07
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| There needs to be a prequel to AHM |
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Calvatron
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 727
Location: brooklyn, Ny
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| General Tekno wrote: | | ultramagnus1 wrote: | | General Tekno wrote: | I had nothing against Spike ending the war. It fit with the whole "humans are important" theme that tends to happen in the franchise. And after all, Megatron DID trash Earth.
Do recall this was before Spike's character got wrecked. |
Yes and if rumors are to believe he may be back.
Spikes character started going downhill in the AHM Coda Man Of Steel. |
Agreed. I didn't mind his use under Shane's watch in AHM.
Heck - I'm still a defender of AHM as a story. It was effective in what it was trying to do. And yes, there's cliched moments here and there, but they were presented well.
Plus, the series had a ton of images I love. Like Devastator's reveal,whenever Omega Supreme deus ex machinaed in, Ratbat taking out Spike's squad.... then you get the other stuff like Kup and Sparkplug being awesome.
(Mind, it also had Hunter's ignoble end, which I didn't like, but at the very least Shane did acknowledge and use that storyline despite his retconning of aspects of it.) |
Agreed. I have certain issues over flow, real issues with this coming out of the previous plots narrative wise, and huge issues with prime's return, but as an independent story shoe-horned into the mist of am epic plot line purely by the editorial staff, i do respect and enjoy it. Unfortunately at the time of release i was too busy spitting blood at the idw editorial team and blaming McCarthy. But now i really enjoy re-reading it for what it was. Oh, what a 6 month delay would have done.....
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ultramagnus1
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:03 am Post subject: |
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I read only parts of AHM as I was late to the IDW party. I only read Vol 1, issues 11 and 12 of Vol 2 and the Coda. I missed a bit of it. It was enjoyable in parts but it wasnt as good as what we have now.
But we did get some great action sequences which im missing a bit off in the new Ongoings.
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Kirjava
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3816
Location: OberÖsterreich
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:50 am Post subject: |
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AHM could have seriously done with flowing more naturally out of the -ations series. I think there would have been a lot more good will to go around with, say, two more issues for Simon to finish Revelations and then another miniseries to allow for the lead-in to what we get in AHM. As it is, we went from one state of affairs to something which seemed completely different, with increasingly unconvincing attempts to cram them together as we went.
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ultramagnus1
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Kirjava wrote: | | AHM could have seriously done with flowing more naturally out of the -ations series. I think there would have been a lot more good will to go around with, say, two more issues for Simon to finish Revelations and then another miniseries to allow for the lead-in to what we get in AHM. As it is, we went from one state of affairs to something which seemed completely different, with increasingly unconvincing attempts to cram them together as we went. |
As I recall Simon was disappointed that Revelations wasnt a 6 issue series.
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GRIML0CK122
Slayer
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 86
Location: somewhere
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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...absolutely nothing?
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Bluestreak
Private
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:58 am Post subject: |
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I would love to see a series called .... War stories. Basically spotlights or three issue arcs or pivotal battle during the surge - told from the veterans versions of deceptions and autobots in blurs new bar.
Just quietly brilliant! |
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DanielW
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 9619
Location: The Village
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: |
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AHM was excellent for what it was - showing how dangerous the Decepticons can be, how ineffective the Autobots have become and how far from his original ideals Megatron has become. Also, there were some excellent set pieces - Rumble unleashed, Ratbat on the river, the first time Astrotrain attacked people in the tunnels...
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Kirjava
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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Location: OberÖsterreich
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| DanielW wrote: | | AHM was excellent for what it was - showing how dangerous the Decepticons can be, how ineffective the Autobots have become and how far from his original ideals Megatron has become. Also, there were some excellent set pieces - Rumble unleashed, Ratbat on the river, the first time Astrotrain attacked people in the tunnels... |
Well, it showed us how much more powerful than fleshy humans the Decepticons are, and that's about it. They fight the Autobots in an incredibly contrived scenario, don't manage to kill any of them (which becomes kinda of laughable when you consider how lethal the characters in LSotW were) and then get beaten back at the end.
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