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Transformers and the Smurfette Principle
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Sprite
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:50 am    Post subject: Transformers and the Smurfette Principle Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opM3T2__lZA&feature=relmfu

"Revenge of the Fallen happens to be one of the most sexist, racist movies I've ever seen."

Ouch. Confused
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Kirjava
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a recap of what we're about to get linked to...?
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Sprite
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's basically a discussion of something called "The Smurfette Principle" in pop culture: the phenomenon that when you have a series not specifically directed at female viewers, the majority of the cast tends to be male with usually one token female character.

Transformers comes up at 3:27.
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Kirjava
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, ta.

Edit: she's not wrong, for the most part. It should be pointed out that, of her examples, the Big Bang Theory has since added two regular and one semi-regular female cast members (and is all the funnier for it), while The Daily Show currently has two female correspondents. It shouldn't also be necessary for a film to have any female characters. Or any male characters. It depends on the story being told. Master and Commander: the Far Side of the World didn't contain a single female speaking role, because it was set entirely aboard a 19th century warship and that wouldn't've made any sense.

Caveats to the 'broad stroke' argument she makes aside, it's not news that RotF was nauseatingly sexist. Transformers is a weird example to pick, given the nature of the protagonists (robot aliens!) but the trendis there, and perhaps reversing it might have a positive impact on gender relations among children and teenagers...
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KJ
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirjava wrote:
It shouldn't also be necessary for a film to have any female characters.


Lesbian porn.


Argue with THAT water-tight logic, m'man.

Cool
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Kirjava
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Game, set and match, sir.
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FDrowned
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fight Club certainly had a lack of female cast members
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CyclonusArmada
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Transformers is a strange choice for debate there, given they didn't have gender until they pushed fembots into the mix.
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Sprite
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the point is that all movies or series should have an equal male/female cast. I think the point is that when you take all entertainment media and look at how many female characters there are vs. how many male characters there are, the males outnumber the females by an astonishing ammount, and when something is not specifically geared towards women, they are usually only token characters. And considering one half (actually a litte over) of the world population is female, that is both very disturbing and unacceptable.
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Damolisher
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T' be fair, the franchise is kinda aimed at a bunch of males who are probably in the "Girls are icky" stage... (Which could be anywhere between 5 and 25, depending on your maturity. Razz) Put it this way- how many 5 year old boys do you know that would play with a "girly-looking" Transformer. Energon Arcee wasn't too popular where I lived, anyway.
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Soundwave
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I ever had a girls are icky stage. Was quite fond of them since age 2. Smile ( Theres a story behind that!)
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Sprite
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Transformers franchise could do with a little more aiming at a broader demographic. Us girls are more flexible about relating to characters that aren't the same gender as us anyway. Unlike guys, who wouldn't be caught dead watching something girly, you know, like My Little Po- oh. Razz
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Damolisher
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bronies.... Bronies everywhere.... *Weeps*
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The Father of Grain
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sprite wrote:
It's basically a discussion of something called "The Smurfette Principle" in pop culture: the phenomenon that when you have a series not specifically directed at female viewers, the majority of the cast tends to be male with usually one token female character.

Transformers comes up at 3:27.


I think the question really is, are the majority of the writers male? I think if there are more female writers, we could see a bigger shift here in balance. As a guy, I find it somewhat hard to write a female character...I could second guess some things, but ultimately I'll probably end up writing something wrong. It may look sexist when the answer could be far more simpler: guys just don't know how to write women beyond casting them in basic roles. That's just my guess.

And...yeah...Transformers is a weird choice to bring up for this topic considering gender was never it's main thing. Bayverse or not.
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DanielW
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Father of Grain wrote:
guys just don't know how to write women beyond casting them in basic roles. That's just my guess.

Unless Simon Furman, James Roberts (hmm Roberts ... Robots ... coincidence?) and a number of Mosaicons are actually robots then the "men aren't women, so can't understand/write women roles" argument makes no sense.
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