IDW Publishing Forums

Antarctica · Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject:

I just read that 6 issue arc and in number #67 when they return the survivor guilt is totally an issue.

But of course since they all survived it is all good. But it was close and terrible for Outback.

www.yojoe.com/comics/joe/joe67.shtml

If you have them read just #61 to #67 that is the best example of GI Joe writing that Hama ever wrote and it is so not kids oriented with its themes.

No wonder just Joe fans loved the comic its was really written for kids.
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maczero · Transforumer Joined: 08 Jul 2007 Posts: 654

Veritas · I'm kind of a big deal Joined: 23 Jul 2011 Posts: 226

Viceroy · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject:

It shouldn't just be how serious GI Joe should be.
In terms of realism. Larry Hama and DDP's GI Joe Reloaded simply cannot be beat. Larry's Marvel era GI Joe and Joe Casey and Chuck Dixon's GI Joe Reloaded presented GI Joe far more realistically than DDP's main titles ever did. The use of proper military terminology. integrating correct US Army procedures, strategy and tactics, really made GI Joe the success it was.
In terms of seriousness, I always lobbied that GI Joe become a really serious title. As fond as I am of Larry's stories, I get dismayed by his wasting issues on comedic clowns like the Dreadnoks or peppering jokes in the middle of a firefight. Anti terrorism is serious business.
And I, for one, wouldn't mind one bit if GI Joe became a pure Spec Ops unit. Spec Ops soldiers are more formidable opponents anyway.
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Antarctica · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject:

Viceroy · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks. And good point. Thanks for reminding me of John Ney Rieber (and Paul Jenkins who started the Reloaded universe rolling with Cobra Reborn) since he did start GI Joe Reloaded and he's the reason why I like Reloaded much more than I do the Main Marvel GI Joe verse.
Consider, Reloaded understates its humor; its confined strictly to real, existing countries (as opposed to the fake nations Larry gave us; remember, Marvel's GI Joe was supposed to be set in our world, NOT in the Marvel superhero universe which is why its use of fake countries is jarring; Cobra Commander acts as a capable leader with a sense of striking strategic targets; and Mr. Neiber did something Larry never did: get me to like Lady Jaye and Duke because as Wizard noted, Mr. R focuses of CHARACTER and makes readers care for them. And remember, Duke was a traitor in Reloaded.
In terms of 'realism' in GI Joe, Cobra falls flat on several fronts:
1)Wanting to conquer the world. They're resources would never be enough to ensure it will happen.
2)Some contradictions in Cobra Commander's origins: he claims he's flat broke when he hires first Firefly and Zartan to kill Snake Eyes, yet he has a fully armed FANG on hand to retrieve Zartan after he kills the Hard Master.
3)As one fan pointed out, how does Cobra replace its destroyed gear so easily? "Do they win Lotto regularly?"
4)Cobra isn't really imaginative in naming its troopers. Most are flagged under the generic __- Viper tag.

Of course, its the cartoons that really violate the Realism issue big time. Consider:
1)The cartoon chain of command. Wikipedia rightly noted that in the real world, there's no way a mere Master Sergeant would be in full command of such an elite unit. At least Larry ignored all calls to name Duke the Leader of GI Joe, but he also never made a clear chain of command in the comics since Hawk never had a real Executive Officer and Larry stated he does in at least one interview. Duke was always third in command.
2)All the Joes knowing to fly a Skystriker or Dragonfly or operate any vehicle.
3)The ultimate insult: having the Greenshirts. General Flagg said it best: The Joes are supposed to be capable of operating for protracted periods of time with NO Support whatsoever.
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RG1701 · I'm kind of a big deal Joined: 04 Jan 2011 Posts: 187

I think you're not realizing the scope of popular support that's present for Cobra in the ARAH series. It actually enjoyed quite a bit of popularity here amongst the states, even amongst politicians.

Besides international terrorism, it's pretty clear that Cobra has plenty of other business concerns, both legit and not. It possibly reaped in billions per year in the comic series.

Also, it's an anarchist organization. Cobra Commander creates chaos and then moves in and solves the problems he creates. His goal is profit and power, but not necessarily to having control of the world like a government. Even in DDP, when he started WWIII, his stated goal to Tomax was perpetual war. Only the cartoon Cobra was interested in ruling the world. The cartoon also never explained where it Cobra got its money from.

Hama's Cobra was really a dark side of American values. After fall term ends, I plan on doing a post that compares/contrasts Marvel/DDP Cobra and IDW reboot Cobra.

Veritas · I'm kind of a big deal Joined: 23 Jul 2011 Posts: 226

This might be a good thread to use to discuss the issue of the title being too "over the top" SF.

I've been watching the frequent complaints that G.I. Joe relies too much on science fiction elements, and I'm curious to see how far the anti-SF elements would want to go to make the title "acceptable."

Does anyone remember an episode of Mythbusters that talked about the weaponry that the Nazis were experimenting with? I recall a sonic weapon, and Tesla's "death ray," but not much else. I also maintain that much of what Joe uses is potentially viable technology - yes, teleportation is definitely out there; research is currently being conducted, however. Destro's protective shell? Not realistic in the least, however. But would purists want it removed from the series?

So - anyone up for a techie nitpicking discussion of how much tech is allowable until it becomes "over the top?" No fair referring to ARAH, however... that's continuing with an established continuity that has ALWAY used SF elements liberally. I want to focus on the reboot - is THAT "too SF?" Should it be more technologically realistic? If so... why?
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shanecdavis · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure anyone is going to play Veritas. We went through this for months back in 2009. I've commented enough on this topic that I'm pretty sure everyone knows where I stand. I will say two things though.

First, I am not anti-SF. If the Marvel or IDW comic were devoid of SF elements they wouldn't have interested me. It was the comic that got me interested in GI Joe. My first comic was Marvel #11, which thankfully was when Mr. Hama got past more of his initial sci-fi elements and established exactly what levels of sci-fi I would accept in my Joeverse and what I could not.

Second, there is a difference between advanced tech and straight up sci-fi. A device that can take thoughts and present them as visual images and battle android troopers are great examples of advanced tech. Giant alien robots and teleportation are great examples of straight up sci-fi. The former aren't possible now, but still can be kept within the realm of possibility. The latter are both totally outlandish and completely outside the realm of possibility.

The MASS device to me represents the most ridiculous SF element in Joe history and is exactly why I refer to volume one of the main title as GI Trek.

Torpedo · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject:

I agree with you, shane, in that my preferred G.I. Joe would involve advanced tech rather than straight up SF, but the thing is the SF elements of the reboot haven't bothered me as much as other elements. If I listed my biggest complaints about the IDW version of G.I. Joe, the MASS Device wouldn't make the Top 5 of my concerns, maybe not even the Top 10.

And maybe that's because the cartoon and the toys were my first real exposure to G.I. Joe. I got into the comics sort of midway through the Marvel run and furiously tracked down the back issues when I realized how good it was.

So, even though I want the comics to be a bit more down-to-earth and serious, there's still a fond place in my heart for the MASS Device, the Weather Dominator and, yes, even Cobra-la. I am emphatically not saying that I want the comics to represent the same level of SF unrealism as the cartoon, what I am saying is my tolerance meter makes allowances for such things because of, well, nostalgia.
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Veritas · I'm kind of a big deal Joined: 23 Jul 2011 Posts: 226

shanecdavis · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject:

It's funny because I don't accept IDW Zartan. Well at least not how Dixon wrote him. I threw away the first issue of his origins and didn't bother picking up the other two. Just more GI Trek garbage. Instead, I still subscribe to the Marvel origin where Zartan uses holography to "shape shift" rather than his body actually changing shape, which I still cannot believe Andy allowed it to reach print. I never thought I would ever see a worse origin for Zartan than Blaylock's crazy idea over at DDP (which was really bad), but Dixon topped it.