IDW Publishing Forums

[Double Dutchess]

[Mariah]

Hi Dorotea.

Do seals view sharks as "evil"? Do they really have a concept of "evil"? Or is it just part of their cycle? I don't personally know if seals make moral judgments like that. They may. They may not. Maybe seals believe being eaten by a shark is the way to their form of afterlife. We assume they must view their predators as "bad" because they bring death...but maybe seals view death the way the Tibetans do. As something inevitable and positive. In any case, our perception and a seals perception of a shark are quite different. Even if we exchanged souls, our frame of reference would be so alien I'm not sure we could process it.

As for Illyria acting superior...that's kind of a big part of her character. True, she's doing it in a slightly different way now...but that's still classic Illyria. Barreling through, making judgments, dictating what should be done. To me, her statement IS funny...in a darkly ironic sense. Whether readers find humor in it in context is up to them. Angel gets pretty sarcastic during that scene himself.

As for her associating herself with humanity...does she? Understanding herself and her relationship to humanity isn't the same as necessarily associating herself -with- them. She's still alien. She is still emphatically not human. But I don't believe that precludes her from understanding something -about- humanity that she didn't before. Or making choices based on that understanding. That has been, to my mind, what her character has been struggling with since her resurrection. What do these memories mean to her? What is her place in this world? What does she -want- to be? And she makes a choice. That's what we explored.

But I don't really want to tell you how to view or feel about the story. I respect that it clearly didn't work for you. We knew going in that people might have strong reactions. But one of the things I love about this fandom is how thoughtful it is, and even when something doesn't gel for them, they can have great conversations about it. :}

[Moscow Watcher]

I finally read all four issues in one gulp, and... wow, the story is amazing and the art is gorgeous.

The most intriguing aspect (to me) is that the arc departs a bit from Joss Whedon's strict antropocentricity. Illyria's changes are more directed toward The Nature, than toward The Man. She finds the connection with plants and trees, and, judging by the new color of her eyes, the new connection influences her inner state a lot. Eyes are the mirror of soul.

Except she doesn't have one, as it was mentioned here. But is the soul necessary?

I love the subtlety of the the parallel of (apparently unsouled) Ksartha sacrificing herself for Illyria and Illyria's newly-found ability to feel for this new world - and for humanity. Our pets - dogs, cats - they hardly have souls in the Christian sense, but they are able to love, to help, to protect. Illyria may not have a soul, but she feels connection to those pesky humans and souled half-breeds, and she wants to help and protect them.

The Avatar-esque twist of Illyria defeating the monster with the help of Mother Nature works great because it's rooted in the scenes from the show, when Illyria talks to the plants at W&H. Nice continuity.
Another great, inspired idea - Illyria turning her enemy into its own embryo. She doesn't kill - she restarts the cycle of life.

Illyria's final conversation with Spike is bittersweet. He exits into the city, the civilization. She goes to the beach, to the nature. She is a force of nature, literally. A bit domesticated, but still.

Looks like Illyria's journey is only starting. After reading the arc I'm sure that Joss will use Illyria in season 9. Maybe even in both titles.

Enormous thanks to Mariah Huehner, Scott Tipton and Elena Casagrande for a wonderful story.
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[Veiriti]

I’ve received my Illyria 4 in Friday last week, but recently I’m too busy, so I have no time to comment it. Actually I can’t add much – I think Moscow Watcher and DD already said everything that I would say. I totally LOVED these series. For me Illyria’s story was the BEST story after ATF!!! The story was so touchable, so deep and Illyria’s development is the best development of the character that I’ve ever seen since Spike’s development in the actual TV show and I’m really surprised that there still are some fans who have negative thoughts/opinions about it…
Anyway, I HOPE Joss Whedon and Scott Allie won’t ignore that brilliant Illyria’s grown in the future comics series. And I had no intention to buy the current Angel’s series, but I will, because of Illyria.
I don’t want to repeat MW’s words, but thank you Mariah Huehner, Scott Tipton and Elena Casagrande for that wonderful story. You’ve really touched my heart!
Actually I have got one question to Mariah – I’ve expected to see and the little Sally in the end – what happened with her and who won the poker game?
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Spike - "Love like that makes you stronger than anything... you CAN SAVE THE WORLD WITH A LOVE LIKE THAT."

[Spacediva70]

[Mariah]

[Veiriti]

[nmcil12]

[DanielW]

Illyria as Protector in the place of Angel (or Twilight as he's predestined to become)? Interesting. We've not heard what fate DH has for her, and the insanely hopeful part of me wishes that IDW has managed to keep her in a "spun-off and not counted as 'canon' (whatever that is) series" (something akin to Faction Paradox or Kaldor City in relation to Doctor Who, both of which started in Who, but their original creators took them in different directions shorn of their connection to Who).

[Moscow Watcher]

[Scott Tipton]

[dorotea]

[pshand05]

[dorotea]

[pshand05]

Whedon didn't stop her progression. The best example of her progression in the TV series is "Not Fade Away" and that's was the last episode. He was pushing her forward until the very end of the show, and the only reason it stopped was because the story stopped.
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