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Sprite
Transforumer
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 14666
Location: The Lost Light
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 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:49 am Post subject: |
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Well, the question is would he have wanted to live like that? In that situation, he apparently wasn't able to make a decision about that anymore; Sideswipe had to make that decision for him. Might have been the wrong one, but I don't think it wasn't humane.
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bassbot
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 5806
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm working on two facts here: McCarthy claimed he would be respectful of Furman's work, and he explicitly knew Furman had future plans for Hunter. That's it. I can't reconcile those two things. Either McCarthy was willfully malicious, or he genuinely couldn't grasp that going out of his way to prevent Furman from telling stories he wanted to tell (and his fans wanted to read) could be interpreted as disrespectful. |
I haven't read the last two pages, but I wanted to comment on this: Furman may have had plans in his head, but is also well known (talk to editors of him) that he likes to threads open and possibilities remain for either himself or future writers.
Whatever Furman's intentions, I have to say that THAT DOESN'T MATTER. IDW had decided to tie up his run on the universe and take the series to a new place with a new vision. So from many single issues and miniseries - they went to a maxi-series.
Personally I loved Furman's run and especially his characterisation of Sunstreaker and Hunter - however, when IDW hire a writer to come on, it doesn't necessarily matter what a past writer has plans for.
So the development that Shane wanted to take Sunstreaker, Sideswipe and others on was quite plausible.
BRINGING this back to Drift, as much as I love that IDW can take Character-Z and make them matter, I WANT them to be able to take Character-A and DESTROY THEM. Peel them apart, piece by piece, or put them in a battle scene and kill them.
Not EVERY death has to be spotlit, but in a way I don't want my TF's to be a protected species.
This WILL bite me, cause I have many favs, but their in a war and we need casualties...
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Detour84
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Posts: 244
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:43 am Post subject: |
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I have a metric load of posts I want to address, but for right now this single one will have to suffice.
| Bass X0 wrote: | | But Hunter wasn't in any stable physical condition. Look at how he was. You could say that Shane didn't have to F Hunter up that badly but in retrospect for Sideswipe to have done anything else, it would have just been cruel. There was no way Hunter could have recovered from his condition. |
How do you know?
When Hunter was Headmasterized, he had most of his body parts stripped away and replaced by mechanical parts in order to transform, and Ratchet was still able to restore Hunter back to full human.
Not to mention that Sideswipe is a goddamn soldier, not a doctor, and at best he's gotten in a mere year's time on Earth before AHM started, so what the hell does he know about human physiology?
Someone who values life, all life, asks the opinion of a goddamn expert on medecine when confronted with a situation like this, not take it upon themselves to be the absolute judge of what to do.
Hence the hypocrisy of Sunstreaker. |
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sol magnus
Transforumer
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 1790
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:03 am Post subject: |
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So I went back and re-read it last night. I suppose some people are going to love it, but I thought it was pretty average in terms of the writing. Alex turned in some awesome pencils, and Josh Perez absolutely smashed the colors out of the park. It's a very good looking book.
Anyway, I thought the story was pretty average - We start off with Deadlock being ruthless, then about to be executed, with a super short explanation as to why, then a chance meeting with a Third faction guy, then a seeming betrayal by Drift turning into him getting turned into the Drift we know. It seems as 'by the numbers' as anything Mike's been accused of. And maybe that's why people are enjoying it greatly - Shane's AHM was ambitious. This...just doesn't feel that way to me.
To be fair, this is only the first issue and it still has some potential to be great on the whole, but the 'drop us into situations' approach is really not that much different than SL: Drift or some of the AHM sequences from where I sit.
RE: Deaths of obscure characters - They're obscure. So they can die. They are also robots, capable of 'resurrections' normal fleshy type characters can't pull off as plausibly. I guess I'm not concerned about killing off Hotshot in issue 2, since he's not a G1 character at all (although Classics/Universe style, he 'fits' with them in a mashup kind of way).
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Last edited by sol magnus on Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:25 am; edited 2 times in total |
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bassbot
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 5806
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:06 am Post subject: |
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I loved #1 cause it had such a different opening to Ironhide as well. Both miniseries have mysteries to be answered, but Drift got us into it at a whole different pace, which I think will strengthen the series - if some of these questions to get some time to them. Mainly the ones with more backstory to Deadlock.
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Matrix
Transforumer
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2182
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Detour84 wrote: | I have a metric load of posts I want to address, but for right now this single one will have to suffice.
| Bass X0 wrote: | | But Hunter wasn't in any stable physical condition. Look at how he was. You could say that Shane didn't have to F Hunter up that badly but in retrospect for Sideswipe to have done anything else, it would have just been cruel. There was no way Hunter could have recovered from his condition. |
How do you know?
When Hunter was Headmasterized, he had most of his body parts stripped away and replaced by mechanical parts in order to transform, and Ratchet was still able to restore Hunter back to full human.
Not to mention that Sideswipe is a goddamn soldier, not a doctor, and at best he's gotten in a mere year's time on Earth before AHM started, so what the hell does he know about human physiology?
Someone who values life, all life, asks the opinion of a goddamn expert on medecine when confronted with a situation like this, not take it upon themselves to be the absolute judge of what to do.
Hence the hypocrisy of Sunstreaker. |
Hypocrisy of Sideswipe, surely?
I don't mind that aspect to his character either - he's already a callous, mood-swingy bastard. 
| Detour wrote: | How do you know?
When Hunter was Headmasterized, he had most of his body parts stripped away and replaced by mechanical parts in order to transform, and Ratchet was still able to restore Hunter back to full human. |
But how do you know? He's certainly not all human - he's got mechanical access points all over his body. He might be a bloke on the outside, but I doubt there's much human left in him.
Edit: Whelp, good old Ratchet's here to solve the issue himself:
| Ratchet, in issue five of Maximum Dinobots wrote: | | Well, I've been able to damp down the positronic feed so you don't keep thinking his thoughts, but I don't know enough about the technology to risk removing your implants. |
Hunter then says he's not sure if he's human or not, yadda yadda. I can imagine the extensive dismantling and the 'BLOOD. BLOOD EVERYWHERE' style panels in AHM are meant to imply he's beyond saving.
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Focksbot
Transforumer
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 1449
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Cattleprod wrote: | | Well, whatever the intent, that's how I read the final page of AHM #12 and that entire Coda story. I found them personally insulting, and those were just the icing on what I found to be a rather unpleasant cake. That's going to color my opinions of McCarthy for a long time to come, he's *always* going to be the guy who ruined my favorite comic. Malicious intent or not, the result's the same, so it makes no difference to me in the long run. |
Cattleprod, I am completely with you on this. But the 'malicious intent or not' part is important, I think, in keeping our integrity. There's no sense in assuming malicious intent when either way, the offence caused is the same, the screw-ups are the same.
As a writer, well ... everyone knows my opinion of McCarthy's efforts on AHM. As a person, I think the only thing that makes me quite angry is his Nelsonian blind eye, a seeming inability to own up to what I think are serious bad habits and poor judgement in his job and hide behind the fluffy concepts of taste and differing opinions. He asserts that AHM sold well and implies that that's all that matters. Whither the artistic integrity, the fastidiousness and deep contemplation required of anyone who seriously wants to do a good job of writing something? Too many writers seem to adopt the Orson Welles quote about 'the world's biggest trainset' and treat writing like playtime.
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JazZeke
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 1238
Location: Somewhere in Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Bass X0 wrote: | | But Hunter wasn't in any stable physical condition. Look at how he was. You could say that Shane didn't have to F Hunter up that badly but in retrospect for Sideswipe to have done anything else, it would have just been cruel. There was no way Hunter could have recovered from his condition. |
| Sprite wrote: | | Yeah, respect for life sometimes means ending it if it becomes unbearable. |
McCarthy wrote Hunter into that position in the first place. He didn't need to put Hunter into a horrific existence before death. If he had killed off Hunter nobly saving some people, or even something like Pyro's scene in Last Stand of the Wreckers, it wouldn't have been so bad. Instead he put Hunter through absolute hell and then killed him off in the most humiliating, nonsensical manner possible.
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Best First
Forum Zombie
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 387
Location: Manchester/London
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:55 am Post subject: |
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I thought the weirdest thing about Hunter's role was that we went from a story that seemed completely unrooted in the continuity it was supposed to sit in to being entirely dependant on a plot element that would have made no sense to a new reader.
I am probably being naive in terms of the magicial world of comic book writing that i am clearly but i would have thought if you are planning a 12 issue story to appeal to both new and old readers the best approach isn't to try and split the issues 50/50.
On topic;
| sol magnus wrote: | | I thought the story was pretty average |
That about sums up my reaction to this. Another week where TF comics are amongst the lower quality tier of my standing order. I've read worse, (and this is Alex's best art for me), but i've read a whole host better as well.
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partholon
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 750
Location: dublin ireland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:29 am Post subject: |
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previews are up for issue two on sites like seibertron and i gotta say.
i LOVE where this is going.
its amazing to say but after 25 years or so very little has been done on the political/ideologicial side of the war and shane goes into it here.
i'd definetly like MORE of this, it builds nicely on what eric did in origin.
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Sprite
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 14666
Location: The Lost Light
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Wow - love it! Nice to see a bit of a strain between Deadlock and Wing. And I'm beginning to see how we'll go from Deadlock to Drift and how they are still the same person in essence somehow; different kind of focus but still with the same drive and passion. I'm really looking forwards to seeing more of the "undercurrents" of the beginning of the war. Can't wait to pick this up tomorrow! 
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Dreadwind
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Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 682
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Sprite wrote: |
I'd say there's still plenty of opportunities to bring Hunter back. All we saw was Sideswipe ending his life support: not that he really needed it. He might've survived without it. He might really have been a fascimile, the real Hunter might still be elsewhere. He might have clones. Someone else might have found him after Sideswipe walked away and revived him somewhere. It's comics; the posibilities are endless... |
Holy. Cow. That would be an awesome way to get into that 'tion part we haven't really seen since!! 
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Detour84
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Posts: 244
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Wow. Wing even calls the damn place an "Utopia".
I totally called it. |
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Cattleprod
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Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 3760
Location: The vast wastelands of Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Focksbot wrote: | | Cattleprod, I am completely with you on this. But the 'malicious intent or not' part is important, I think, in keeping our integrity. There's no sense in assuming malicious intent when either way, the offence caused is the same, the screw-ups are the same. |
Yeah, I've tried to maintain that it's just as likely he really thought he was being respectful of Furman's work and failed spectacularly. This whole line of discussion started up in this thread because of accusations they were killing off characters out of spite, so that's the aspect I focused on.
No matter what the reason, there's something classless about killing off a character (especially in such a throwaway manner) you know another writer has plans for. Hail and Farewell's existence was acknowledged by other IDW staffers. They knew Furman had ideas for the Headmaster concept. I didn't mind Sunstreaker's death at all because it served the story in a way Hunter's didn't, and the fact I assumed much of Furman's concepts could survive by just bonding Hunter to someone else (hey, possibly because doing so was the only way to save him. Instead of pointlessly killing him.)
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Denton J. Tipton
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 360
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Okay. I'm ending this here. We're not here to speculate about intent. We're here to discuss the work.
Do not refer to creators or anyone else here as "classless" or "stupid." How many times do we have to say "don't get personal"?
Cattleprod and Detour84, consider this your last warning. We know you don't like Drift or Shane's work. Move along.
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