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Detour84
I'm kind of a big deal
Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Posts: 244
Location: Montreal, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| tronprogram wrote: | Guys, we're gradually moving off topic here.
If you've got issues, please take them to PM's. Let's leave the thread open for comments about that actual content of issue #1. Please.
Thanks |
But lesser-used characters getting little more than a one-panel death scene isn't off-topic to the Drift mini-series, since that's precisely what happens in the first five pages of the book.
| Quote: | I agree.
Ideally, I'd like to imagine IDW's continuity as one where every Z-lister can have a story to explore and a character to examine - but that doesn't always service storytelling needs.
I hate to see character deaths, generally speaking. But When they do occur, I think they can be employed ina variety of ways. While I'm not a fan of 'shock tactics' in plot development or character writing, a death can deliver a shock and create a certain mood or atmosphere at a certain point.
And deaths needn't be handled with great exploration of the consequences and fallout each time. Especially in this franchise. We're dealing with war. People die in wars all the time. That makes the fact no less abhorrent or shocking, but there is the truism that we learned from Last Stand Of The Wreckers: That people die in 'stupid, pointless ways'. |
But again, none of the deaths here really deliver this "shock" or are really any more impactful than any of the generics dying in the opening segments of Ralph Maccio's Transformers #1.
And even then, it's perfectly possible for a generic's death scene to be impactful too, without necessarily having repercussions on the main plot. Just look at LSOTW's opening segments, I was pitying those poor Autobots, because the sequence was played out with such brutality from the Decepticons, by jove. *
And to say nothing of the three scenes of captive Autobots in issue 3... the exact same settings are revisited in issue 5 and now the poor generics have been brutally murdered. I was shocked. I was all "holy crap I can't believe that happened". With Drift #1 all I get is "Well... that was a waste of characters".
* And in that regard... reminiscing about that scene suddenly makes the opening of Drift #1 feel like a Missed Moment of Awesome. Turmoil made Deadlock out to be this brutal and ruthless individual, but looking at this scene it seems more like an Informed Ability. All he does is fire his guns and kick Not-Mantaray. Can you imagine how it would've been if he'd taken it to a squad of Generic Autobots with the same levels of brutality that Overlord's Decepticon Generics used in LSOTW #1? |
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tronprogram
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 655
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: |
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[/quote]
But lesser-used characters getting little more than a one-panel death scene isn't off-topic to the Drift mini-series, since that's precisely what happens in the first five pages of the book.
[quote]
Well, you've made your thoughts on issue 1 quite clear. If you want to carry on with your compliants about lesser used characters being killed off very quickly, may i suggest starting up a seperate thread about it instead of carrying on in this one.
Thanks
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Urzu Seven
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Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 2243
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Reading this discussion, I can't help but be reminded of the one TransFormer in IDW's run who had the biggest hole ever blown through him... Starscream. And he yet lives.
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markerguru
Slayer
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 92
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Detour84 wrote: | F
| markerguru wrote: | | the characters that got scrapped in issue one were ones i picked from my generations book that i thought looked good and wanted to draw. |
But just think, Alex. If you hadn't killed them off then and there, the opportunity to draw them again in different situations may have popped up! 
| Quote: | | any of the other issues i started to use some characters from other series like armada/energon, and cybertron. |
Hm. Don't want to start another war with you or anything, but I did hear David Willis's name amongst those who would be "targeted" (or rather, the way I heard the rumor is "Milne is going to kill off the favorites of guys who bashed his art, like Walky"), and everyone knows one of Willis's favorite characters is Armada's Hot Shot...
So with that in mind, if Hot Shot ends up as one of the cannon fodder, you'll have to forgive me if I raise my eyebrow suspiciously.
Also, for the record... None of the characters getting scrapped in this book were my favorites... but what bugs me is they could have been.
Recent official fiction from many different authors putting various obscure characters to great use, at times giving those characters their first ever fictional portrayal, has birthed a new Golden Rule of TF storytelling for me:
An obscure character is only obscure until a writer does something with the character.
Unceremoniously killing off these existing characters for the sake of Big Battle feels like a waste of character potential, considering generics dying would've served the same purpose. |
lets see, well i don't know what i'll be working on in the future, so if i get a chance to draw some characters i want to in, then i take that opportunity to draw them. yes coming up with random bots is also fun, but then i might also like the bot i'm coming up with so it's the same thing. it's hard to choose what i want to draw.
now i thought we were talking about issue one here. lets see. when i started issue 2 i had a battle scene between the autobots and decepticons and i asked a few of my friends who to draw in there. a few of them said i should draw hot shot, and i was like hot shot??? why the hell do i want to draw him??? i'm not the biggest fan of armada anyways. then one of them said it was Walky's favourite, but i still don't know if that's true or not, and i laughed, and i said, if you want me to put him in, i will. personally i don't care. so at first i asked my friends what characters to add, they gave me a few choices and when i then wanted to know the reason behind there choice they told me, and i got a laugh out of it.
so, no lie here. no favourite characters of anyone who i hardly know in issue one. in issue 2, there is. did i do it because that guy upsets me. no. i don't really care what he says. i did it because my friends thought it was be funny and it's a character not in the G1-G2 line that will be used. oh, and i'm not the biggest fan of armada, so theres that too.
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Last edited by markerguru on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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markerguru
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 92
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Detour84 wrote: |
Recent official fiction from many different authors putting various obscure characters to great use, at times giving those characters their first ever fictional portrayal, has birthed a new Golden Rule of TF storytelling for me:
An obscure character is only obscure until a writer does something with the character.
Unceremoniously killing off these existing characters for the sake of Big Battle feels like a waste of character potential, considering generics dying would've served the same purpose. |
you bring a good point up. i would love to see all the characters get stories, especially the Japanese transformers from the G1 line. maybe some generics would have worked, but i felt that the team sunstreaker was in charge of needed to be made up of a few known characters. it was hard to choose which ones i wanted to use. metal hawk for my friend, and then there were so many others. i know i chose road rocket because i really like the look of that figure. that probably one of the G2 toys i'm going to hunt for . anyways. i wanted to draw some known bots, and that was my idea.
gotta ask. would you be upset if i had used omega spreem as canon fodder???
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Mort
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Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 1083
Location: York, UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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So like, issue 1 was great and that.
Actually, no, it was just enjoyable. I'm withholding judgement for the series as a whole. I would have liked this to be a 6 part and expand on some things more to be honest, but let's see where it goes.
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Cattleprod
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Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 3760
Location: The vast wastelands of Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Sprite wrote: | | Cattleprod wrote: | | That said, I still have an extremely hard time believing that Hunter's pointless death was anything but a 'screw you' to Furman and his fans. This speculation fits that pattern perfectly, so I find it plausible. |
Here's something that needs addressing. I seem to notice a tendency among people that when they don't like somebody, or somebody's work, they tend to take everything that writer does and put it in the most negative light possible. Without making any effort to find out if it's true, without putting things in perspective or considering other points-of-view.
I thought Hunter's death fitted the story. The right emotional shock at the right time. I hate the fact that he died, but I liked how it was done. I don't believe for a second that Shane put it in to flip the finger at Simon (why would he?) or the fans - I mean, come on! The guy's a professional writer. Projecting such feelings on to him is projecting your own pettiness, srsly. You can say the speculation "fits the pattern", but if that pattern in itself is a fan-created myth (and there have been a couple of those floating around), it's still wrong. And nasty. And wrong. |
I'm working on two facts here: McCarthy claimed he would be respectful of Furman's work, and he explicitly knew Furman had future plans for Hunter. That's it. I can't reconcile those two things. Either McCarthy was willfully malicious, or he genuinely couldn't grasp that going out of his way to prevent Furman from telling stories he wanted to tell (and his fans wanted to read) could be interpreted as disrespectful.
Sunhunter was literally the only aspect of Furman's prior stories that got more than a one-line mention or get contradicted completely, and it was brought up just to undo it. Then, to follow it up in his Coda story, he subtly rewrote a scene from Escalation to make Hunter look like a sadist.
I'll admit that I'm "biased" against McCarthy. It's not some irrational grudge, it's 100% based on the quality of his work.
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Focksbot
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Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 1449
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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The thing is though, Cattleprod, looking at all the other wild misjudgements made by McCarthy in storytelling terms, it looks far more likely that he genuinely thought the way he used Sunstreaker and Hunter would go down well somehow - in a 'powerful ending' sort of way. I mean, he thought that Megatron's revelations in issues 11 would be an awe-inspiring shock/insight. He thought Spike and his dad were characters you could root for. He thought that Prime pinging back to life, good as new, would make for a fist-pumping moment as the reader turned the page. He thought that the odd derisive remark about a 'reformed' mass murderer would cut it as an examination of racism. It doesn't seem that much of a stretch that he thought we would weep (in a good way) at Hunter's death.
Having said that, it would be hilarious if it *was* designed as a deliberate thumbing of the nose but was executed so poorly that only a few people realise it!
Now, Drift. Err... why are people wrapping themselves in bandages again?
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Dreadwind
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I really don't see what the motive would be for all these editors, writers and artists disliking random people so much that they kill off fictional characters over it or have stories ret-con/not get around to mentioning stuff from issues in years past...
People that juvenile would never really make it in the professional world.
Clearly Nick Roche must hate my guts in that case or something...
Moving on, Drift is telling an intriguing story that's been hinted at with a nice artistic style. Realistically, the individual we know from AHM is going to, in his past, go from Decepticon, to a third group, get disillusioned with them, and still give the Autobots a shot and move on with his life. That's what I'm curious about, cuz it seems like a lot of people, and Transformers, have become totally upended by the idea of changing sides, even when they weren't really set on the one their in to begin with.
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Brett_Bass
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Location: Washington, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've got to say that I genuinely enjoyed Drift #1. I've read through it twice now, and liked it both times. That's saying a lot, as I've been a fairly devout critic of Shane McCarthy's work and have never much saw much of interest in the character of Drift. But--darn it--this was a well-put-together comic.
Alex Milne's art is superb, and the mechanical designs are visually impressive and fresh. Shane has paced the issue well, and given us a few valuable glimpses into Drift's past (and a nice 'to be continued!' moment as well). All in all, I'm impressed and glad I gave the book a chance. I was well and truly on the fence, and had passed it over more than once 'just in case' but I'm glad that I eventually picked it up.
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DanielW
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Focksbot wrote: | | Now, Drift. Err... why are people wrapping themselves in bandages again? |
Because it's a disguise
Which does open interesting routes for thought, Mosaics and possible future stories - why do they feel the need to hide what they are. They're a known species, they're a relatively powerful one at that. Is it because they're hated? If so, why are they hated? Is it because there's something out there more powerful? If so, what? |
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Thunderwing
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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There's also the whole thing that is rammed down our throats a few times in AHM, SL: Cliffjumper, and SL: Drift about how the M.O. of the Autobots up until now (as in, under Furman) has been "WRONG" and how it needs to change.
I can't imagine that's anything but commentary on what McCarthy thought of Furman's whole setup in IDW up until that point.
And as a comic book reader for most of my life, I can tell you...most comic book writers have NO qualms about poo-pooing other previous writers work in-story.
The Claremont/Byrne back and forth over Doctor Doom is an enduring testament to this, and Peter David has been known to throw in a sly jab at other writers' works. (Petty "Larsen-y", anyone?)
What am I talking about, "slight jab"...PAD retconned Bruce Jones' entire two year-run on the Hulk away by making it an extended dream sequence that Nightmare had the Hulk in.
So no matter what you may think, "professionals" aren't above playing king of the mountain.
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Focksbot
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreadwind wrote: | | People that juvenile would never really make it in the professional world. |
Now, that I do disagree with. Professionalism is really about knowing which side your bread's buttered, ie. being mature when it counts. Nothing that says you can't be a brat to people who don't matter, eh?
But honestly? I don't think there's very convincing evidence for the idea anyone's deliberately killing characters to annoy certain people, and until there is, it makes us look more irrational than we are to go on about it. There's plenty that we can be fed up with on a perfectly reasonable basis. Why bother with 'rumours'?
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Dreadwind
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Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 682
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Focksbot wrote: | | Dreadwind wrote: | | People that juvenile would never really make it in the professional world. |
Now, that I do disagree with. Professionalism is really about knowing which side your bread's buttered, ie. being mature when it counts. Nothing that says you can't be a brat to people who don't matter, eh? |
Clearly I've been associating with Corey Burton too long then...
Some fun jabs maybe but...
What I find neat about Drift 1 is I've read a few times that people who didn't like Drift as a character like this... I like Drift, so I'm reading it... but I <3 that people are giving it a chance.
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Cattleprod
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Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 3760
Location: The vast wastelands of Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Focksbot wrote: | | But honestly? I don't think there's very convincing evidence for the idea anyone's deliberately killing characters to annoy certain people, and until there is, it makes us look more irrational than we are to go on about it. There's plenty that we can be fed up with on a perfectly reasonable basis. Why bother with 'rumours'? |
Well, whatever the intent, that's how I read the final page of AHM #12 and that entire Coda story. I found them personally insulting, and those were just the icing on what I found to be a rather unpleasant cake. That's going to color my opinions of McCarthy for a long time to come, he's *always* going to be the guy who ruined my favorite comic. Malicious intent or not, the result's the same, so it makes no difference to me in the long run.
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