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Buffyversefantic
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Double Dutchess
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Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Great! I particularly love the "I'm Angel"/ "No you're not" page.
Too bad there is this annoying "conscious" typo on the previous page. But I guess that will be fixed for the paperback version.
I wonder how long it will take before the whole "people changing into their costumes" thing starts to ring a bell with Angel (and Spike, for that matter, though I'm not sure if he ever found out what caused it). |
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BrianLynch
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Typos! It's a celebration of my run on ANGEL. Can't go out without at least one. Blaaaah.
Things move kinda too quickly for Angel to register previous events. I had the scene where Angel said "this has happened before" but cut it for space. Maybe I'll insert a mention in the trade.
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Buffyversefantic
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have my copy of Angel #27,Boys And Their Toys Part II of II.
It was a good lighthearted fun issue and a nice read after the heavy Buffy Season 8 #30.
Basically Spike as Angel channels his extreme views of Angel's personality in funny dialog.But underneath that we see that Spike does look up to Angel and even wants to be him.
When Spike as Angel realizes he's not the real Angel,he appears sad.
Some bullet points
-Groo refers to Spike as Angel as Spangel.
Angel:Groo,you're with,Um...
Groo with his arm around Spike as Angel:And men shall call him SPANGEL!
Angel:No,they won't.EVER,
-The demons weren't out to kill Angel.They were after Spike.They didn't even know Angel would be at the convention.The bounty was on Spike.Why I assume will be revealed in the Spike monthly.
-This arc seemed like a prologue for the Spike monthly.
-The end of the issue has a nice bonding moment between Angel and Spike.
-The back of the comic has an interview with Angel(spangel shippers will like the last question and answer).
IDW:Uh,yeah.One last question,Angel.What's Spike *really* like?
Angel:I wish people would stop asking me about that.It was just one time and...oh.You mean as a person.He's Spike.Bleached.Not very bright.Extremely annoying.Doesn't brood enough,if you ask me.Maybe he will in his new series,coming next year.Now please,no more pictures.You won't see me in them,anyway.
-There is also a little interview with Bill Williams about Eddie Hope and the backup Angel feature in Willingham's run.
Overall a fun issue. |
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Darth Bombshell
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Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 469
Location: Maple Ridge, British Columbia, Canada.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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OK, so who else didn't get this today?
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Shade of Pale
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Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Me ! The preview pages are going to have to keep me going till next week, but if they're anything to go by, it should be worth the wait. |
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Buffyversefantic
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Shade of Pale wrote: | | Me ! The preview pages are going to have to keep me going till next week, but if they're anything to go by, it should be worth the wait. |
It seems a lot of people's shops didn't get their copies in this week.I guess I'm one of the few who lucked out. |
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Deborahmm
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:25 am Post subject: |
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I got my copy. Enjoyed it very much, though I don't think Spike has ever wanted to be Angel. Didn't think so while the show was on and don't now.
It made for some funny scenes, though, and I loved the last scene between Spike and Angel. Their relationship was pretty one-sided in A: AtF and it's nice to see they appreciate each other, even if they don't often show it.
Jeremy discovering the vase wasn't evil was very funny, and Groo was hilarious.
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Shade of Pale
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Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Had a nice surprise today, I got my copy of this issue, thanks in large to the cancellation of the postal strikes that had been planned this week in the UK.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, it was warm, it was funny with some great character moments for all the cast - and I especially loved the Spike/Angel bonding moment on the last page. I shall enjoy rereading it. Great job, Brian and Stephen.
| Deborahmm wrote: | | Enjoyed it very much, though I don't think Spike has ever wanted to be Angel. Didn't think so while the show was on and don't now. |
I think that in some respects he would like to be more like Angel and maybe found that whilst thinking he was Angel, that he had a sense of surety and purpose that at the moment he is trying very hard to find for himself. As soon as he realized he wasn't Angel, he was sad because he's back to being uncertain again. I think that Spike has a very deep inferiority complex, doesn't consider himself to be good enough and looks to leaders like Buffy and Angel to show him the way, when what he really needs is a bit more confidence in himself. But that confidence is probably sadly lacking after the tragic events of Spike:After the Fall. At the moment I can buy that he's looking to Angel for inspiration because he doesn't trust himself and his decision making. Angel's the guy who gets things done, the guy who people look up to, the guy that gets the girl, the guy he subconciously admires (Though paradoxically I think that Angel himself doesn't see himself in quite this glowing way)For a while, it was easier to be Angel.
eta - The 'Angel' questions at the end really amused me and gave me a 'Blackadder' flashback. What is he like ???? from the episode in the first series, the Queen of Spain's Beard !  |
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Deborahmm
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I suppose I can see that. However, it still doesn't work for me because I think Spike is pretty clear-eyed about Angel and knows there's more to him than his heroic public persona, yet that's all he appears to see here when he thinks he is Angel.
However, there was enough to enjoy that I can let it go. I just hope their relationship in Bill Willingham's arc and in the upcoming Spike series isn't going to be eternally stuck in the long-suffering older brother/annoying little brother groove. I'm a bit sick of it.
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BrianLynch
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: |
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This is kinda what I was going for: in the beginning of the story, Spike is saying he doesn't know what he's supposed to do now that his future is wide open.
When he was Angel for that short time, he had a clear purpose. He sees Angel as a white knight, and Spike isn't to the point yet where he can consider himself the perfect hero. So while he was running around with a clear purpose, it was a relief and it was empowering. As Spike's personality and current problem came creeping back in, he was down about it for a moment.
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Deborahmm
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| BrianLynch wrote: | | He sees Angel as a white knight, and Spike isn't to the point yet where he can consider himself the perfect hero. |
I don't think I can see Spike ever reaching the point where he'd consider himself a perfect hero. For that matter, I don't see Angel thinking he'd (Angel, that is) reached that point either.
Do you really believe that Spike thinks of Angel as a white knight, Brian, or was that just a conceit for the story? If the former, I'm afraid I don't agree. In AtS season 5, Spike told Angel he 'knew' him, by which I took him to mean that, coming from the same place himself (ie. a vampire with a soul), he understood that Angel's heroic outer seeming concealed a lot of darkness underneath.
I don't say this to do Angel down. To me, the fact that Angel has all this darkness and must daily fight against it in order to be a hero makes him more of a hero, not less. I can also perfectly well see that Spike would admire this quality in Angel and want to emulate it - because as he says at the end, and as Angel agrees, trying to be good when the demon in you is urging you to be the opposite, is never going to get any easier - but I just don't see it as hero-worship.
Anyway, sorry to cavil. If all fans saw things the same way, the universe would probably explode. I did enjoy the story very much. It was great fun, and the last scene between Spike and Angel in particular was very touching.
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BrianLynch
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: |
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I think Spike thinks Angel has a more clear set of goals than he does, in terms of being a hero and fighting the good fight. And at this point in Spike's life, he really wants that.
Yes, Spike said that in Season 5. And if the story took place then, it would be weird for Spike to think of Angel as they way I wrote him in issue 27. But since season 5, currently, Spike sees Angel in a different light.
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Double Dutchess
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Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Luckily my comic book shop wasn't hit by the distribution problem and I got my copy of Angel #27 last night. When I walked into the shop, the owner immediately told me, "The new Angel is still on the shelf" (meaning the New Arrivals shelf), which amazed me because I had only bought one (1!) Angel issue before (#26) and I am far from a regular customer. Some memory! It can't be because they never sell any Angel comics; maybe it's because they hardly get any female customers??
Anyway, about the issue itself, the only thing I can do is echo what other people have already said: I read it and enjoyed it a lot. Very funny and a nice set-up for the Spike series to come. I had to look up what a "nunchuk" is, and also the Jack Kirby reference (I'm not really familiar with American comics) so I even learned something.
| Buffyversefantic wrote: | | -The demons weren't out to kill Angel.They were after Spike.They didn't even know Angel would be at the convention.The bounty was on Spike.Why I assume will be revealed in the Spike monthly. |
Wasn't it only the tentacly demon who was after Spike? The bear demons were there for Angel. Interesting by the way that Spike seemed to derive some self-esteem from the fact that somebody wanted to kill him. So apparently he was sincere when he tried to comfort Harmony with the same thought at the end of Harm's Way.
Like everybody else I loved the bonding between Spike and Angel on the last page. But I also went "Aww" at the sight of little Linus, happy with his Dicky Duck doll.
| Shade of Pale wrote: |
| Deborahmm wrote: | | Enjoyed it very much, though I don't think Spike has ever wanted to be Angel. Didn't think so while the show was on and don't now. |
I think that in some respects he would like to be more like Angel and maybe found that whilst thinking he was Angel, that he had a sense of surety and purpose that at the moment he is trying very hard to find for himself. As soon as he realized he wasn't Angel, he was sad because he's back to being uncertain again. I think that Spike has a very deep inferiority complex, doesn't consider himself to be good enough and looks to leaders like Buffy and Angel to show him the way, when what he really needs is a bit more confidence in himself. But that confidence is probably sadly lacking after the tragic events of Spike:After the Fall. At the moment I can buy that he's looking to Angel for inspiration because he doesn't trust himself and his decision making. Angel's the guy who gets things done, the guy who people look up to, the guy that gets the girl, the guy he subconciously admires (Though paradoxically I think that Angel himself doesn't see himself in quite this glowing way)For a while, it was easier to be Angel. |
That's exactly how I interpreted it too. Also note Spike-as-Angel's remark "We took Spike in. What does that tell you?" which tells us that apparently Spike believes Angel doesn't think much of him. No wonder that realising he is not Angel but Spike felt a bit like "crashing down" to him.
Finally, dare I mention that I think I spotted another typo... (Spike on the intercom, "It's been taken of.") Oh well, more celebration! The issue is so much fun it simply can't be spoiled by such minor details. |
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Deborahmm
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| BrianLynch wrote: | I think Spike thinks Angel has a more clear set of goals than he does, in terms of being a hero and fighting the good fight. And at this point in Spike's life, he really wants that.
Yes, Spike said that in Season 5. And if the story took place then, it would be weird for Spike to think of Angel as they way I wrote him in issue 27. But since season 5, currently, Spike sees Angel in a different light. |
Fair enough. And how do you think Angel sees Spike now? In season 5, he seemed almost envious of Spike at times, maybe because Angel had had to make some dubious moral choices to go to Wolfram & Hart and envied Spike for not having had to make those choices and be sullied by them.
After the events of After the Fall, does Angel now see himself as completely absolved of those choices and therefore as Spike's moral superior?
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