IDW Publishing Forums

ER

For the most part I loved everything about Snake and Storm in the original continuity. Their "super-human" abilities, such as dodging bullets, shooting moving targets through solid walls with an arrow, taking on Cobra Island by themselves, etc, was exactly what made them so cool. But I'm wondering if these abilities should be toned down a bit in the new IDW books. To be honest, in Storm Shadow #3 when he was tied up, hanging upside down, and the bad dude swings his sword at his face, full blast, and SS catches the blade with his teeth, and wrenches the sword out of the grasp of the bad guys hands, again with his teeth... As much as I loved Storm Shadow #1-4, I have to say that a few of the moments like these were a bit much. They should still be the best in the world, but I don't think I want my suspension of disbelief stretched that much to the limit in the newer books. Again, I'm not dissing anything in the original Marvel run - these over-the-top abilities were important to the storyline, and a blast to read - but in the new books I'd like to see them a little less powerful - more along the lines of #31 when Snake was taken out by Destro, Firefly, and Fred - Snake was still the best - but he had more reasonable limits in this story.

If, however, the writers of the new books want to keep them as powerful as before, I will respect this and am looking forward to the new stories either way. But I'd be interested to know what other readers think about this, if anyone wants to throw in their two cents.

shanecdavis · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject:

I don't know. Overall, I think Larry was fair with both Snakes and Tommy. Casey was by far the absolute worst offender here. Tommy jumps from a badly damaged Sky Hawk and lands on his feet. He deflects bullets with his light sab.......errrrrrrrrrrr ninjato. Snakes is undead and then Tommy resurrects him. Tommy undoes a mind switch, which was laughable to begin with. Casey's run was just plain awful.

As for Larry, you pointed out one of my favorite stories. Also remember that Snakes was captured in Sierra Gordo, holding off the COBRAs and resistance fighters so the rest of the Joe team could get awy. Tommy was also captured by Roadblock. I will admit that the ninja thing went too far in the latter run of Marvel and into DDP.

If the great Hama can capture the essence of the early Marvel run (20-50) then I would say this will be a non-issue.

Ro-Dan · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject:

YES! God YES! Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow are not superheroes. When you break them down to their cores they're still human with very human limitations. This isn't DC or Marvel comics here. I'm looking for G.I. Joe to be quite a bit more grounded than superhero comics. Of course SE/SS are very skilled. However, they're not invincible. I can see their hand-to-hand martial arts abilities being above all the other characters but they shouldn't be Gods among men.
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kicbocsir · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:47 am Post subject:

yes.... more realistic... i want my commando snake eyes back!
and my ninja assasian to be unleashed from his brainwashing...
and remember his true reason for joining cobra.. that is to find the person or persons responsible for the killing of the soft master.
just think storm shadow on no one side but his own!
BLOOD WILL BE SHED also if snake eyes will meet storm shadow by accident i want them to renew their brotherhood, sure storm shadow was overly jealious.. but i would like to think he could over come that.. but if none of this happens keep storm shadow on one side only..
stop the flip flopping.
yo joe frank
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|D.M| · I'm kind of a big deal Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 106

I missread the poll and voted no. Crying or Very sad

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shanecdavis · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:03 am Post subject:

Viceroy · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject:

I went with neutral (and, BTW, you should've added Jinx to the mix because, like it or not, she's a Ninja, too!).
I prefer seeing SE as a Commando, but his Ninja background shouldn't just be ditched. Why not simply have him as a Commando & use his Ninja skills if the circumstances demand it (ie: He goes to rescue Scarlett from Storm Shadow; he & Jinx faces off against Slice & Dice).
As for SS, his Ninja skills weren' t a problem as he is slotted as a Ninja. What I hated was hsi preachiness when he was a good guy. He'd fit in with Star Trek The Next Generation as it talks the enemy to death, as opposed to Kirk & Archer who confront an adversary & aren't afraid to fire a few phaser & photon torpedo salvoes if need be.
Hopefully, SS will remain a villain.
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ER · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject:

Thanks everyone who took the time to respond.

Viceroy, I too am a fan of Snake-Eyes employing both commando and ninja skills, depending on the circumstance. I wasn't asking if the ninja skills should be dumped. I was asking if the ninja skills should be toned down to a more believable level in the new books.

Oh yeah, I didn't mean to leave Jinx or any other ninja out - sorry Smile

Viceroy · Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject:

Thanks, ER.
I agree that the Ninja aspect should be either toned down-or at least explained away to correct any misconceptions by newer fans., When Larry had Storm Shadow escape rom Alcatraz in GI Joe #24 ,he explained it in GI Joe #32, ditto when SS was supposedly gunned down by the Baroness in GI Joe #46, his revival in GI Joe #49 was explained come GI Joe #52.
Contrary to popular belief, Ninjas aren't superhumans. As early as 1964, in the novel You Only Live Twice-where James Bond gets a basic primer on Ninjitsu, his friend Tiger Tanaka tells him that The ninjas have never been the superhumans popular culture presented them as such.
The closest superheroics the Ninjas did was to scale sheer walls ala Spider-Man & Spider -Girl. Everything else they did can be backed up by a little research.
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ChainClaw · Forum Zombie Joined: 22 Jun 2007 Posts: 256 Location: sc

A lot of stuff wasn't so much superhuman as skills learned. The shooting arrows through solid walls, wasn't that in the dojo, through one of the ricepaper wall screens, embedding into the piece of wood the Hard Master was giving his demonstration with?

I think Hama gave them a little bit of mysticism which isn't exactly super powers, I mean if people can accept android troopers, cloned leaders, and mercenaries whose skin changes color immediately in bright light, I figure SOME leeway can be applied. Granted I don't really want them too powerfull, but I won't lie, I always have liked my ninjas to be rather mysterious with thier badassery.
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ER · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject:

Viceroy and ChainClaw, thanks for your additional insights.

And I do love all the SE/SS stuff as written by LH in the Marvel run. I agree that there was nothing about them that was out of line with the tone of that series.

However the tone of the new IDW books (established in #0) seems a bit different from the Marvel run. And I still believe that some of the ninja abilities we've seen in the past would feel out of place in the new books. (Arrows went through more than rice paper - check out SS nailing the chipmunk through a solid wall in #26 and a Cobra Soldier through solid steel in #46 - again great stuff for the tone established for the Marvel run - wouldn't want it any other way in the original run - but I'm not sure I want them this powerful in the new books) The SS "teeth" scene I described above - if something like that was in the new IDW books, seriously, that would be tough for me to see in the more realistic tone I saw in #0.

But as I said in my original post, if Larry and the other writers choose to make the ninja abilities as over-the-top as before, I'll respect this, and am way excited for the new stories either way. Smile

Antarctica · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject:

They are human and very, very, very, very skilled and should be written that way.
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Eagleyes · Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject:

i misread the poll and voted no

ArashikageMaster · Red Shirt Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 13

maczero · Transforumer Joined: 08 Jul 2007 Posts: 654

I liked them to be superb hand 2 hand combatants and close to peak human in terms of physical stats. Eliminate the 20 foot somersaults, the bullet dodging and soloing squads of enemies with just a sword and I'll be fine with their portrayals.

As for the Snake-Eyes commando vs. ninja argument, I don't see why he can't be both. It's just that in recent years, the ninja side has seemed to over shadow the commando skills. For once, I'd like to see him use the uzi as much as the sword.

Speaking of choosing the uzi over the sword, there's a great scene in "Silent Interlude" when SE is confronted by a sai weilding red ninja. Instead of going hand 2 hand with the guy, SE just lobs a grenade at him. Now that's bad ass and energy efficient.
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